[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
holy shit! another BiGG

[Sys1]

BiGG is a guy posting threads where he always "finds" a new miracle solution to save mankind from peak oil

[Licho]

EROEI of fusion is high enough, to make further discussion pointless. You don't need EROEI 10000:1 for a source, that can be scaled up so easilly, and it's fuel ocean water.. Compared to oil, fusion is truly limitless..
Modern wind power also has higher EROEI than oil, and this doesnt make it more usefull.. EROEI is simply only marginally measure (and highly disputable one).. (check those long threads about EROEI in basics)

[Antimatter]

It's worth pointing out that the difference between an EROEI of 100 and EROEI of 25 sounds like a lot but is marginal. In the case of EROEI = 100 one unit of energy has to be invested to get another 100, when EROEI = 25 four units have to be invested to get another 100. Bugger all difference really.

[jockc]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')h and you need somewhat less than one beaker-full per person per year.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'T')he EROEI estimate comes from this site:

http://www.ofes.fusion.doe.gov/

[Jaymax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'N')o one is going to harness the heat and power of the sun by the time Peak Oil arrives.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jaymax', '
')Why do doomers always forget (a) peak oil is a curve,

[MattSavinar]

[
My theory is that, as long as there is no shock (like tripling of prices overnight) but a slow, steady increase along the oil plateau, then peak oil will not be the end of the world at all- it may be hard, and involve driving 600cc cars, but the markets will prevail. At least in the west.

Phew, sorry about the length of this! [/quote]

Shifty,

Could you point me to some instances from history where a small disruption in the supply of oil did not cause a massive spike in a short period of time?

Thus far, I have found only the opposite: reductioins as small as 3-15% cause the price to spike 300%. (See 1970s, for instance)

When US domestic production peaked in 1970, the price went from $1/Barrel to $12/Barrel - this was prior to the 1973 embargo.

So what happens when there is a 2-8% reduction every year? In the context of a banking system that needs 2-8% growth every year?

"Doomers" may be accussed of forgetting we're talking about a curve (I haven't seen any do this) but far more people forget (or are never aware in the first place) how absolutely necessary growth is for our financial system to stave off full blown collapse.

The markets are stable only because the banks and traders are still operating under the assumption that growth is still possible.

Wait till they realize it's not.

Also, credible experts are already talking about $100 oil by the end of this year. What happens for instance, if after 3-5 months of oil in the $100 range, we get a non-geologic disruption similiar to those of 1970s? Then we are talking about $300-$400 oil almost overnight. That would put gas at $10-$15 gallon.

Could this be why the US government is placing such an emphasis on empolying the military in domestic situations? How do you think they are expecting people to react when gas is in that range?

With the House of Saud as unstable as it is, that there will be some sort of major disruption is highly probable. Which is exaclty why the bigwigs are running war games involving this type of scenario.

Best,

Matt

[Didga]

Its beautiful isn't it, the NWO's masterplan for control unfolding right before your very eyes. Guess what, this time its not another terrorist attack, narr too simple the public wont buy it. This time its a financial crisis based on a geological fact, no one can engineer that right. The eilte will make billions by shorting the markets and the banks will clean up all the people unable to pay their loans. Brillant in a completely preventable crisis.

The energy industry is unfortunately a controlled racket. Peak oil is a geological fact known by the energy industry and NWO for decades. Technological developments have been supressed in favour of tightening control. The common business practise is to by a new invention and then never develop it. Peak oil is about to happen and will be malipulated by the NWO to increase their control.

How do we know this? Firstly the most detailed source of oil information in the world comes for Petroconsultants, their major client the CIA. The same NWO infiltrated agency that co-ordinated the military-industrial complexes 9-11 attacks. They know we are about to run out of oil, the NWO have known for decades, it guided the Carter admin and other leaders afterwards.

Why is the media slient? Because the CIA (or sections of it) have run programs to place key operatives within the media to oversee its message. Ensure that the message remains "business as usual". And now, with discussion of peak this year or next the media is leaking the story out in mixed messages, just before it happens and far too late. The alternatives, the solutions that are here now, and have been around for decades, have never been adopted because they reduce the illuminati's control. Public transport infrastructure in LA was actually dismantled by an oil and car industry conspiracy featuring standard oil.

What was the solution, its here now, too late of course, but always available. Proper public transport systems in well designed cities, not oil consuming monaliths built on conspiracy. A system of technological development that was not controlled by corporate interests. Corporations must act in the interest of profit, an oil and car industry symbiont organism is not legally able to release any technology that will harm profits. They could be sued by the stockholders, the technology in energy efficiency and alternatives have been suppressed.

Do you believe in the Olduvai Gorge theory? We run out of electricity. For the price of a medium sized family car I can deck myeslf out in solar cells and an energy efficient refrigerator and contribute energy to the grid. When is the grid meant to break down, at peak use on hot sunny days blackouts occur, this is when my solar house would be contributing the most energy to the grid. These sloar cells are available now, from BP, a company that has an interest in controlling the energy market. So why do we all not enjoy electricity free solar housing driving a few trips in a fuel efficient car around a well designed city for public transport. Because none of this increases control by the elite following their NWO program of using oil as a weapon.

So peak oil is about to happen, geological fact. But it has been known about for years by the eilite, never acted upon as the crisis has always suited the elites, to profit from more than preventing it. The controlled media has been used in order to malipulate from the crisis by false optimistic estimates of late peak and doom/gloom merchants preaching the right geological facts. To be effective propoganda must have an element of truth. The right political facts, the right NWO and illuminati facts, the right energy racket facts have not been discussed by the doom/gloomers.

The question of who stands to gain from a controlled energy industry over time? What were the failures in the sytem that allowed this to occur? Who suppressed the technologies that could have mitigated peak oil. Who knew about peak oil early and then deliberately choose to use the information for their advantage?

Insane you say, we all go down the same horrible path with peak oil, why would the elite sell us out. One of the reasons is because they had to. To release all the suppressed technology as it developed and design cities that reduced the oil/car demand would have meant giving up power and control. Much better to make billions by shorting the markets in a controlled financial crisis. In the NWO after peak oil access to oil will be decided by pure control and money based on a pecking order. The elite will on top of this pecking order. Billions will die, but thats just fine by them. Millions already die by the policies of the IMF and World Bank. To the elites mindset they are the useless eaters. They see smaller world population ruled by them.

Yes that right, peak oil will not mean the end of humanity, a collapse is certain, but this will not be equally spread. The NWO will be installed by the peak oil crisis, there is no need for another 911 style inside job, geological reality will be the scapegoat. The reality is peak oil was entirely preventable and still now could be mitigated to a certain degree. But this will not occur, for a complex set of reasons and particular traits installed into humans by evolution. The fundamental driving for the peak oil crisis has always been the development and maintenance of power by the elite. Its an interesting study in human society the peak oil collapse and the type of civilisation that will arise after it.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Didga', 'I')ts beautiful isn't it, the NWO's masterplan for control unfolding right before your very eyes.

[nth]

No growth economies are happening right now in Japan for over a decade.
Some parts of Europe is not growing all that much.

Our society and its economy is based on growth, but lack of growth doesn't mean Depression. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

Same with gasoline shortages. It can lead to chaos, but it doesn't have to be.
US doesn't need martial law when we hit PO. The last time in the 70's, we had long gas lines and gas shortages and no martial law was need it. The idea that the gas shortage was short term was not in the media or publics vocabulary if you lived through that time. It was thought to be a long term ordeal, so many investors invested in alternative fuels to only get wiped out by the low oil prices.

[Gogo]

IMHO the simplest, most effective thing that could be implemented immediately would be for the President to issue an executive order re-imposing a 55 MPH speed limit. This would immediately reduce comsumption of gasoline, if only by a few percent.

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gogo', 'I')MHO the simplest, most effective thing that could be implemented immediately would be for the President to issue an executive order re-imposing a 55 MPH speed limit. This would immediately reduce comsumption of gasoline, if only by a few percent.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SHiFTY', 'I') am posting this in the interests of rational scientific debate about this subject. I have some serious problems with the theory behind peak oil and would like to hear people's opinions.

My problems are threefold:
1)Peak oil theory relies on dubious assumptions;
2)Peak oil fails to count any geo-political factors which influence oil production; and
3)peak oil theory fails to account for other economic factors, including how markets work.

[ROCKMAN]

Shifty's poist fails in his title: global peak oil never was and never will be a "theory". It is and always will be a statistical reality. The details, including the relatively unimportant date of global PO, can be debated. But the long term negative effects of the combination of a declining finite reserve base and a growing global population demanding greater access to energy remains the heart of the dynamic at play.

[onlooker]

haha, Adam and his followers are the real baiters trying to get members here to join their merry band of deniers. The peak oil dynamic is alive and well. As attest to by the dismal record of the global economy after hitting $147 or so per barrel. As attested to by the amount of debt created to salvage our Oil Industries. As attested to by countries both with oil reserves some huge like Venezuela and others without being priced out of the market and struggling to take care of their people. As attested to by Unconventional Oil and Gas becoming so prominent. So, basically we have a world Economy which never recovered after 2008, up to their necks in Debt and World GDP falling by 5.7% last year. The the largest fall that has been seen in the last 100 years. But, let everyone be the judge of whose version of events is more credible.