[Pops]

You keep saying that newf.
But what jobs are necessary?
None.
Get rid of all those worthless jobs and then a few million can go out to the woods and eat grubs while everyone else starves.
See?
All jobs are worthless.
end of discussion

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon1', '
')
This assumes that the entire existing global population has already been incorporated into the industrial/market economy. But this is not the case. Not even a slightest bit close. Eg., out of 1.5b or so of the Chinese, only about 200-300m have been involved by now, maybe a bit more.

Otherwise fair observations.

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') little respect for the worker, a willingness to pay a little more (or buy one chachka less) so the people picking up your candy wrappers can make a living.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') little respect for the worker, a willingness to pay a little more (or buy one chachka less) so the people picking up your candy wrappers can make a living.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'Y')ou keep saying that newf.
But what jobs are necessary?
None.
Get rid of all those worthless jobs and then a few million can go out to the woods and eat grubs while everyone else starves.
See?
All jobs are worthless.
end of discussion

[Pops]

Newf, lol
You can't get anyone to engage because you sound like Trump.


Or Clint "get off my lawn" Kowalaski

[Shaved Monkey]

In Japan that would include knife/sword makers, kimono makers,ceramicists,the Ikebana guy,the geisha,the guy who folds the origami,the guy who runs the tea ceremony,the guy who ties the traditional knots.,the sushi master,including the more specialised fugu master etc,etc.
We just let the corporations and their accountants and politicians destroy any chance of having a more diverse and spiritually fulfilling economy/life.

[Shaved Monkey]

They could then form a commune in the empty shells.
They could share skills and resources,learn some useful crafts and grow vegetables in the dug up car park and barter with other former Walmart/Costco dwelling communes.
Until the guys still "working" send in their militia to crush the dirty commies

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'N')ewf, lol
You can't get anyone to engage because you sound like Trump.


Or Clint "get off my lawn" Kowalaski

[Newfie]

PStar,

Just to elaborate a bit, when I say those are meaningless jobs, I don't mean to imply they have no meaning to the person who has the job or to the economy. They are meaningless in the sense that they build or produce nothing.

Let's take a hairdresser, or barber, for example. Her job contributes nothing to the material wealth of the society, unlike a farmer or miner. Her job could go away and society would function just as well. But her job DOES give her a place in society, a position where she feel like she is contributing. Now she could do that in an informal setting and not get paid, which brings us to the second meaning her job has. Is is a way to redistribute wealth. It's "trickle down" economics. I think is is the bit you were alluding to. So for her, and the current economic model, it is very important.

The hairdresser example is pretty benign. As is the insurance clerk. But let's look at a ballon salesman. His output puts mylar waste into the environment and it depletes our helium reserves. But also he has a store front nd maybe a delivery truck. All these things need resources; water, gas, electric, which consume resources.

Theoretically we could resolve much of this unnecessary consumption by changing how we distribute wealth. Just make direct payouts from the government for people to stay home and NOT CONSUME. That would address the financial aspect, but it would not allow folks the dignity, the feeling that they are doing something for the society. That's why it fails.

This is a temporary problem, created by a highly efficient agriculture system, made worse by automation. It will cease when the cheap fuel runs out. Then we will be back to hoeing fields by hand and being too tired to worry about our place, our contributions. They will be quite tangible.

.........
Buy me three beers (or one) and I'll go on about how prisoners have a valuable position in our economy.

[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Let's take a hairdresser, or barber, for example. Her job contributes nothing to the material wealth of the society, unlike a farmer or miner. Her job could go away and society would function just as well. But her job DOES give her a place in society, a position where she feel like she is contributing.

[Shaved Monkey]

Corporations have no responsibility to the community,they export jobs, they destroy the environment and they dodge tax,they buy governments all while benefiting from the safety and stability of the laws and infrastructure of a first world country.
Then the burden of their failures, falls on Governments, society and the tax payer,it should be passed back on to their share holders.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', 'C')orporations have no responsibility to the community,they export jobs, they destroy the environment and they dodge tax,they buy governments all while benefiting from the safety and stability of the laws and infrastructure of a first world country.
Then the burden of their failures, falls on Governments, society and the tax payer,it should be passed back on to their share holders.

[Newfie]

C8,

IMHO the intangibles, the feelings of self with and contribution, are very important for the social fabric. They are important in their own right.

But the bass a learn way we deal with this issue tends to drive consumption and doesn't do a great job of tending to folks. As a culture we do not vale caring for folks directly, even though we do on a personal level. That explains why Social Workers are the lowest paid college grads. Financially they would be better off flipping burgers, poor pay but no college debt.

Then the quests becomes...How do we support people for contributing to society in an equitable fashion? I think we need to look at our wealth redistribution system and try to move away from"trickle down". Maybe Monte's Helicopter Money could be melded here. The goal is to maintain or improve societies mental/physical condition while moving away from consumption.

[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', 'C')orporations have no responsibility to the community,they export jobs, they destroy the environment and they dodge tax,they buy governments all while benefiting from the safety and stability of the laws and infrastructure of a first world country.
Then the burden of their failures, falls on Governments, society and the tax payer,it should be passed back on to their share holders.

[Shaved Monkey]

In an automated and overpopulated future were the rich still rule, there will always be jobs for goons, coke dealers and hookers.

Welcome to Lagos may be the future for everyone else
https://vimeo.com/11206466

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'N')ot just low skill, computers have replaced legal researchers—lawyers— in retrieving relevant material and are 95% accurate... They have replaced writers in churning out lots of boilerplate news stories that contain say, stock prices.

Intelligent systems can hold more accessible knowledge than a human and play what if millions of times faster (think playing chess only with medical symptoms), I always use my own graphic design where computation power decimated the ranks of skilled workers in the printing trades, the same in all "creative" fields.

It is a thing. We go pooh pooh and turn around and wonder why the working population ratio is falling or the disability ranks are rising or unattached workers and part timers and contract workers are increasing.

[Ayoob]

Another thought. Why allow any immigration at all into your nation under the automation+overpopulation=unemployment idea? It only makes sense to start population management with eugenics to cull the losers. This doesn't have to be done along the lines of IQ management, although that could be one component. Why not eliminate say-tachs disease and huntington's disease? It would only make sense to sterilize all females over the age of 21 to reduce the possibility of introducing a Downs syndrome child. Men would need to be sterilized by 35 or so to eliminate the same problem. People need to reproduce YOUNG. That's the only way to go. Reproduce young from healthy stock who have the highest likelihood of future success and happiness.

Offer a permanent welfare check to anyone who wants to take it in exchange for sterilization. Say an extra $2K/mo for sterilization. I'm 44, I would take it. Snip me, and give me the $2K/mo subsidy to avoid the future probability of my fathering a kid with Downs. Doesn't that make sense? Prices would adjust over time to account for this extra money flow and it would become almost a requirement at some point for people in the lowest quintile of economic achievement.

Diabetes, bipolar, high blood pressure, all these things could be reduced or eliminated by applying eugenic population pressure over several generations.