[Pops]

Lawyers with an off-switch, nirvana! LOL

5 jobs
http://fortune.com/2015/02/25/5-jobs-th ... re-taking/

a writing quiz
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015 ... -quiz.html

[Shaved Monkey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', 'T')he other point about overdoing automation is the fact that ultimately salaried staff spend more than unemployed people.

[Shaved Monkey]

The Dutch have a good idea paying Artists a living wage,that could work.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Dutch government realised that working artists are a tremendous asset to a society and to its economy too.
After all, most visitors come to Amsterdam precisely because of its rich cultural history and collections of work by painters like Rembrandt and Van Gogh.
Art gives life to a city and is part of renewing the stock of intellectual property.
And, more prosaically, cultural industries account for an ever-growing share of Amsterdam’s jobs.
So even to a businesslike Dutch mentality, helping struggling artists to find their feet financially makes good sense.
That is why the Netherlands started a scheme called WWIK (Wet Werk en Inkomen Kunstenaars – ‘Work and Income for Artists Act’) that gives practising artists a guaranteed basic income, but with the obligation to generate a certain amount of income themselves

[C8]

There are some finer points to this dynamic that I want to underline a little more.

1. The overpopulation IS in the poorer areas of the world (which are less automated) but as this group gets larger and larger it feeds in a larger migration stream into developed nations- 5% of 2 billion Africans going to Europe is a lot more people than 5% of 2 million Africans (or Latinos going into the US). The result is that, for example, the US population is growing quite rapidly- but mainly by migration and births from that. People don't stay in one place.

2. Once migrants from poor, overpopulated areas enter a developed nation- they continue to have large families (often made possible by social welfare benefits and, or, cheap waged jobs)- this grows the developed populations even more (almost all of future increases in US birthrates is due to migrants).

3. The automation is increasing more rapidly in the wealthier nations- thus reducing the need for workers (hence the chart I posted in the OP).

4. This sets up a dynamic mismatch between an exploding poor population that is migrating into wealthier nations and job loses in those nations due to increased automation.

5. Large groups of idle people can lead to massive, destabilizing movements, political warfare between the "makers and the takers", and eventually, economic bankruptcy as the only way to subsidize a growing number of non-workers is through borrowing (see Greece).

[Newfie]

C8,
Your #5 is spot on. The US teeters on this now.

Have you read Throuex "Last Train to Zona Verde"? He is a odd travel writer who walks. Very experienced in Africa. In this book he tries to walk up the West coast of Africa, but gets discouraged in the Congo by the boards of folks who sit around doing nothing amidst filth. They do nothing to help themselves, they are simply mired in collective depression. It makes it easier to understand how the war lords take control, they give people hope, something to do.

[careinke]

I've heard that if Walmart had to pay a $15 minimum wage, the stores would no longer make a profit. Contrary to popular belief a large companies primary purpose for existing is to make a profit. It is not to provide well paying jobs, or even a product to it's customer. If it's not making money, it is not useful to the company.

That said, I would expect companies to try and reduce more employees as their cost rises.

On the other hand maybe if we raised the min wage to $20 we could get rid of all the big box stores. I'm sure we would be so much better off.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I')'ve heard that if Walmart had to pay a $15 minimum wage, the stores would no longer make a profit. Contrary to popular belief a large companies primary purpose for existing is to make a profit.

[radon1]

The actions of large groups of idle people and their political warfare have everything to do with the wishes, wants, ambitions, aspirations, power instincts etc. of these people, and have nothing to do whatsoever with "overpopulation" or automation.

[Shaved Monkey]

I imagine this craft trend thats happening now is part of the solution.
Craft beer,craft burgers,craft gin,hand knitted cardigans,slow roasted barbecued meat,traditional strop razor shaves, artisinal cheese makers,tattoo parlours,hole in the wall bars, and sourdough woodfired bakeries selling bread for $6.50 a loaf were the stoopermarket sells the robot made bread for 85 c
The solution may be that we all ride bikes, grow beards and make something unique and expensive to sell to the people who still work in suits.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I')'ve heard that if Walmart had to pay a $15 minimum wage, the stores would no longer make a profit. Contrary to popular belief a large companies primary purpose for existing is to make a profit.

[Shaved Monkey]

Depends on whether you value ethics over profit

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', 'D')epends on whether you value ethics over profit

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'S')o you advocate closing all the Walmart's because someone made a profit, probably including you if you own a general income fund?

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'S')o you advocate closing all the Walmart's because someone made a profit, probably including you if you own a general income fund?

[Shaved Monkey]

Australias unemployment rate is under 6% minimum wage is $656.90 per week, calculated on the basis of a week of 38 ordinary hours, or $17.29 per hour.
Casual loading—of 25 per cent.
So if you worked at Walmart in Australia as a casual you would be on $21.60 ish an hour
If you worked weekends its time and half and double time depending on the hours and shift
So you could be on $42 an hour on a Sunday.

Theres no Walmart here though we did have Waltons department store and they saw Coles Variety and turned it into Walmart (back in the states).
Coles variety was dismantled in Australia back to separate stores.

But Maccas has to pay those wages and still make a profit and employ people.
We dont really tip in Australia waitresses get payed minimum wage plus weekend loadings.

[ralfy]

The catch with automation is that it is profitable only if sales of what is produced go up. If unemployment goes up and leads to lower sales, then automation does not help.

Also, increasing sales eventually leads to expanding markets, especially given competition. And expanding markets ultimately require growing populations.

Thus, for automation to flourish, there has to be increasing employment and population (so that there will be more consumers to purchase what is produced). This, of course, implies expanding biocapacity, which is obviously not the case:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-collapse

[radon1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', ' ')And expanding markets ultimately require growing populations.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'T')his is why I would like to see a limit on the highest paid executive to 50 times the lowest paid employee. Forget minimum wage, it's a distraction.

[Newfie]

The problem is that "labor saving devices", be it a tractor or a robot, have made much of humanity redundant.

We have tried to fight this through capitalisism>Consumerisim and have pretty well ruined the world in the process.

Take out all the idiotic, do nothing, jobs in the economy, pretty much most of the "service sector" and you don't have a lot of real necessary jobs left.

Walmart is not the problem. Walmart is a symptom.

But no worries, it will all self correct in the foreseeable future.