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What's your opinion on religion?
Re: What's your opinion on religion?
by JV153 » Sat 12 Dec 2015, 08:03:46
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'D')efense should not be conflated with attack, though those doing the defending often fall into the trap of attacking their opponents. Jihadist thinkers believe is attack as the first line of defense, not the last resort.
I sense some kind of Sun Tzu-ish element to this, but perhaps with some element of the 5 Buddhist hindrances.
- JV153
Re: What's your opinion on religion?
by MonteQuest » Sat 26 Dec 2015, 19:01:16
On the origin of religion; part satire, mostly fact.
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity. What changed?
Agriculture.
Hunting and gathering existed as the primary method of subsistence for over 99 percent of human existence. Hunter-gatherers believed that all objects possessed either an impersonal supernatural power, or that natural objects were possessed by spirits that could interact with humans in beneficial or malevolent ways. Religion centered on controlling or protecting oneself and others from this power or mystery.
Thus, superstitions grew out of a lack of a scientific understanding of the natural world. Yet, the hunter-gatherer’s interaction with the natural world was so intertwined with all aspects of their culture and subsistence, it was difficult to separate those superstitions from their innate understanding of the natural world.
Along comes agriculture, and the people become divorced from the easy means of their subsistence from the natural world. As luck would have it, one day there is a drought, and threatens their crops and hard work. Perhaps some Shaman did a dance to the rain god and, voila! Rain. Or maybe they sacrificed someone’s new born on a rock and it rained. It matters little, as long as the people came to believe it worked.
At any rate, the people rejoiced. Temples were built. Mythical books were written, promising everything from streets of gold to naked virgins. Rituals were “made from whole cloth.” Power was attained and consolidated by those who could best the rain god’s penchant to not perform as instructed, and by those who were able to hoard and control any crop surplus. Armies followed. Power was further consolidated by force and persecution. The Sumerians' vision of heaven was used as an attempt to justify the brutality of a new system, one in which peasants worked the land, and the agricultural surplus supported an aristocracy.
Over time, religions not only promised rain, but eternal life. The rest is a sordid, bloody, horror story history that rational people tried to view from afar without much luck. Life is now centered around controlling or protecting oneself from religious beliefs that are borne of ignorance, written myths of man, and superstitions of the natural world.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”—Steven Weinberg.
Religion divides people and breeds inhumanity. Under what other conditions can a pig walk through an Islamic holy ground and cause Muslims to go on a murder rampage, stabbing and clubbing Hindus? We have agriculture to largely blame for this, as hunting/gathering could never have fed a marching army on a religious crusade raping, plundering and pillaging in the name of God or Allah or Buddha.
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity. What changed?
Agriculture.
Hunting and gathering existed as the primary method of subsistence for over 99 percent of human existence. Hunter-gatherers believed that all objects possessed either an impersonal supernatural power, or that natural objects were possessed by spirits that could interact with humans in beneficial or malevolent ways. Religion centered on controlling or protecting oneself and others from this power or mystery.
Thus, superstitions grew out of a lack of a scientific understanding of the natural world. Yet, the hunter-gatherer’s interaction with the natural world was so intertwined with all aspects of their culture and subsistence, it was difficult to separate those superstitions from their innate understanding of the natural world.
Along comes agriculture, and the people become divorced from the easy means of their subsistence from the natural world. As luck would have it, one day there is a drought, and threatens their crops and hard work. Perhaps some Shaman did a dance to the rain god and, voila! Rain. Or maybe they sacrificed someone’s new born on a rock and it rained. It matters little, as long as the people came to believe it worked.
At any rate, the people rejoiced. Temples were built. Mythical books were written, promising everything from streets of gold to naked virgins. Rituals were “made from whole cloth.” Power was attained and consolidated by those who could best the rain god’s penchant to not perform as instructed, and by those who were able to hoard and control any crop surplus. Armies followed. Power was further consolidated by force and persecution. The Sumerians' vision of heaven was used as an attempt to justify the brutality of a new system, one in which peasants worked the land, and the agricultural surplus supported an aristocracy.
Over time, religions not only promised rain, but eternal life. The rest is a sordid, bloody, horror story history that rational people tried to view from afar without much luck. Life is now centered around controlling or protecting oneself from religious beliefs that are borne of ignorance, written myths of man, and superstitions of the natural world.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”—Steven Weinberg.
Religion divides people and breeds inhumanity. Under what other conditions can a pig walk through an Islamic holy ground and cause Muslims to go on a murder rampage, stabbing and clubbing Hindus? We have agriculture to largely blame for this, as hunting/gathering could never have fed a marching army on a religious crusade raping, plundering and pillaging in the name of God or Allah or Buddha.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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MonteQuest - Expert
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Re: What's your opinion on religion?
by Plantagenet » Sat 26 Dec 2015, 19:16:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'O')n the origin of religion....
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity....
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity....
Most anthropologists think religion was invented a bit earlier.
European paleolithic culture seems to have included religion. The cave paintings and carvings found across Europe seem to involve totemistic worship of animal gods or animistic magic to aid the hunt or both. Some paleolithic caves also contain cave bear skulls set in various arrangements that might have had a religious or ceremonial significance. This would take religion back to 30-50,000 years ago.
Even earlier human burials sometimes show evidence that very early humans had some sense of an afterlife. Some middle paleolithic sites contain burials where the bodies have been carefully interred, with flowers and sometimes items that might be useful in an "afterlife". By this interpretation the earliest appearance of "religion" might go back to 300,000 years ago.
30,000 year old "god entity?"
PS---Montequest--WELCOME BACK!
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Plantagenet - Expert
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Re: What's your opinion on religion?
by MonteQuest » Sat 26 Dec 2015, 19:28:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'O')n the origin of religion....
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity....
Humans existed for roughly two million years without religion. It is only during the last 10,000 years that most cultures have concocted some form of religious belief that entailed a God entity....
Most anthropologists think religion was invented a bit earlier.
Yes, I know. But I was referring to "concocted" religion that used it for power over others.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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MonteQuest - Expert
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