[Shaved Monkey]

It is a very convenient excuse to implement mass surveillance and erode the civil liberties of virtually everyone on the planet.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', 'I')t is a very convenient excuse to implement mass surveillance and erode the civil liberties of virtually everyone on the planet.

[ennui2]

Terrorism is real. Next thread?

[Newfie]

Terrorism is real, but as noted above it is spun to meet the needs.

The question is, Whose needs?

I think there is a lot to the premise that it is spun so as to be a false flag. I think there are a lot of segments or groups that desire this. Not the least the public in general who want to have an enemy, someone to blame, a distraction. That is also convenient for those who stand next in line to be blamed.

There are very few folks with any kind of perspective on this. Nor is it simple. As Dohboi was pointing out there are links to climate change, and Pops would argue resource extraction, and I highlight over population. None none of these are false flags, all contribute.

It is the distraction from the substantive issues, the root cause analysis, that is damaging.

[AgentR11]

I don't actually say its a false flag. I'd actually be ok with it if it were a false flag and we were out bagging some real enemies that just needed an excuse for us to tag'n'bag.

But that's not it.

My opinion... The United States of America was wholey defeated and destroyed on 9/11; and the "War on Terror" is our surrender document, signed and sealed.

There are things I could do before that date, that harm no one, that were in no way crimes, or even conceivable as crimes; that if I did today would land me in federal prison for years. There are a *LOT* of places that should be public space, that were public space, freely passable, that are now "security zones" that if you violate, you go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

They say, in justification; that the realities of our world require such.

I say, yep. because we were militarily defeated and surrendered unconditionally.

To put it bluntly, we surrendered America, and buried her, over a body count lower than what we kill on the highways in a few months just being stupid.

I am not amused.

[onlooker]

Those root causative factors you cited Newfie are all very real as is Terrorism. But if you guys read carefully my OP, it directs itself at the War on Terror. Provocation has been a part of it. I know some of you are adamant that Islam has a segment of followers who are dogmatic and fervent within their religious conceptualization. So, my point that these views and ideologies are fueling even more this War on Terror. But the instigators of this is what I am trying to get at. We must be honest with ourselves and confront the question of why an Israeli/Jewish homeland was created right smack in the middle of a hub of Islam. We must question why Saudi Arabia has been a lynch pin of our oil addiction and how in turn their aristocracy/royalty has maintained such a firm grip on power. Terrorism is a symptom of a world that realizes its fundamental resource - oil is on the verge of becoming economically and physically scarce. It is also a symptom of a power structure that cares not really about the welfare of humans but only on maintaining its grip on power and has employed Terrorism to further this aim.

[Newfie]

Israel got stick where it is because it was expedient at the time. It was where they could stash the noisey Jews without a homeland that wasn't in a nice European country, that they agreed with, and the Palestinians were in no position to argue.

Saudis Arabia needs no questioning, it is what it is, our fuel station of choice. Does anyone here not already understand that?

Terrorism is fueled by the forces you cite, no doubt. Good points. But let us not limit our inquiry, keep an open mind.

At what point in human history have we NOT had terrorism of one sort or another? Elsewhere it has been pointed out that the rate of terrorism has been fairly steady. The Munich olymipics, London train bombing, Madrid train, various German agents making attacks, Sarin gas in Japan, the Murrow building here I the USA, 9/11, Irish Troubles, Basque separatist, Killing Fields, the Holocost, porgoms, black lynchings, Native American genocide, Scottish dislocations, the Balkans at most anytime, Mayans sort of in general with all that cutting out the living heart and playing ball with heads shit, rape of Nanking, the bombing of London/Dresden/Japan each designed and justified to strike terror into the civillian polulation and break the will to fight..........etc. endlessly. Terrorism always seems to find a reason to be, a home in the minds of some disaffected group.

We don't always call it "terrorism" but surely it is terrible, nightmarish for the effected population. When "we" do it we call it something else. When they do it it's called TERRORISIM.

The truth is TERRORISIM is a fundamental human trait, endemic in our species, that raises its specter whenever the conditions allow. We all, ALL, carry its seeds within us, most of us can keep it under control most of the time. Not convienced? Look at the Milken and Stanford experiments, more recently fully realized in Abu Ghraib.

This particular group, IS, is only unique in their naked embrace of the technique, they don't try to hide it, how crude.

Sorry for the lecture, I got going there.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')To put it bluntly, we surrendered America, and buried her, over a body count lower than what we kill on the highways in a few months just being stupid.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') am making this post to submit that the War on Terrorism is the ultimate false flag and a black swan event only superficially.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') am making this post to submit that the War on Terrorism is the ultimate false flag and a black swan event only superficially. Specifically from the point of view of the US and western world, Islamic terrorism provides the backdrop for an endless war. This fits perfectly in the context of literature on the matter including the famous book "1984", in which the purpose of war is to distract and control the native population. To wit, you add the fact of the geopolitical importance of the Middle East and that is where we are fighting proxy wars. The other war is the propaganda war to win the hearts and minds of people. 911 is a crucial piece to the puzzle thus is was not a black swan event but rather a carefully thought out plan to begin this never ending War on Terror. Even the fanaticism of religious zealots in the ME makes this ongoing strategic operation even more successful. Thus, we now have a situation whereby terrorists attacks grab all the headlines as the most recent one in Mali has. All the while the more pervasive and foreboding threats of peak oil, global warming and associated environmental and economic decline and dysfunction are circumvented and under reported and under appreciated. The War on Terror allows Western powers to continue to try and attain the rich deposits of fossil fuels in the Middle East and thus maintain the control and power structures that currently exist.

[onlooker]

Well guys you all make valid and good points. I find the first paragraph of Tanada particularly interesting in that whether this is some intentional conspiracy or simply the reflexive normal response of the powers that be to maintain some level of control is rather a moot point. Now, I can divert to the last paragraph of Tanada as well as Shaved Monkey post. I agree that terrorism in one form or another is endemic to human societies and also that we need a certain level of security to maintain safety. But what I am interested in, knowing that all of you are curious persons is to what level is this part of a plan or intentional. Ibon states that it is unlikely to have any coordination or sophisticated planning involved. I submit, that the War on Terror did not need any sophisticated or complex planning just light a fuse and wallah you have your endless War. I submit again that 911 was the principle fuse that was lit and exploded. We are baffled that some elite would have this mindset yet have we not seen throughout history those in power attempting by any means to remain in power. The problem is as I stated previously that this planet faces now an onslaught of threats greater then terrorism and they are not confined to any group. As we wallow in this chaotic back and forth of blame and counter blame, we have lost sight completely of the true non-personal and non person derived threats that stand to affect in one form or another every human on this planet.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'T')o put it bluntly, we surrendered America, and buried her, over a body count lower than what we kill on the highways in a few months just being stupid.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') am making this post to submit that the War on Terrorism is the ultimate false flag and a black swan event only superficially. Specifically from the point of view of the US and western world, Islamic terrorism provides the backdrop for an endless war. This fits perfectly in the context of literature on the matter including the famous book "1984", in which the purpose of war is to distract and control the native population. To wit, you add the fact of the geopolitical importance of the Middle East and that is where we are fighting proxy wars. The other war is the propaganda war to win the hearts and minds of people. 911 is a crucial piece to the puzzle thus is was not a black swan event but rather a carefully thought out plan to begin this never ending War on Terror. Even the fanaticism of religious zealots in the ME makes this ongoing strategic operation even more successful. Thus, we now have a situation whereby terrorists attacks grab all the headlines as the most recent one in Mali has. All the while the more pervasive and foreboding threats of peak oil, global warming and associated environmental and economic decline and dysfunction are circumvented and under reported and under appreciated. The War on Terror allows Western powers to continue to try and attain the rich deposits of fossil fuels in the Middle East and thus maintain the control and power structures that currently exist.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')I think there is a lot to the premise that it is spun so as to be a false flag.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')errorism is a symptom of a world that realizes its fundamental resource - oil is on the verge of becoming economically and physically scarce

[onlooker]

Ennui, you are not quite understanding. Nobody is denying that terrorism is real and exists, certainly not me. What I am saying is that the War on Terrorism is the false flag. It is way too convenient for the TPTB to just attribute all this too random chance and circumstance. A fuse was lit and so my contention of false flag. War abroad has further provoked radical Islam and nourished the flames of terrorism. Now in this country as previous posts on this thread refer too, we are under the watchful ever present eye of Big Brother. As Shaved Monkey stated this mass surveillance is already curtailing our privacy rights and in fact other measures have been enacted to restrict certain forms of expression and due process. I do not necessarily have a problem with this but it is my conviction that the authorities and power that be have all along wished to have this level of control to act with impunity both abroad and here.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '.').. the War on Terrorism ....

[PrestonSturges]

Well I wouldn't say 9-11 was a false flag, but the point remains that the GOP is practically a branch of Al Qaeda/ISIS in terms of always publicizing them and doing their PR, always doing exactly what Al Qaeda/ISIS says needs to happen for Al Qaeda/ISIS to win, and pinning their political hopes on the success of Al Qaeda/ISIS.

[onlooker]

Plant what difference does it make what it's called?