[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
Let me repeat....

ECONOMIC GROWTH IS GENOCIDE ON A MASS SCALE.

[Newfie]

Speaking for myself and my beliefs alone, you have no fear of this group coming to get you. IS? Maybe.

In Nature there are only events and consequences. These are the things that will hurt you. This is what you need to prep for.

And although you may not appreciate it, I am very much of the same belief system as you. We simply understand the threats to that system differently my friend.

Going back to the Guidestones admonition to keep humanity to below 500,000,000. I'd not NOT read that as saying there should be some mass genocide. I read that as saying there will be a mass die off taking human population to well below 500 million and that we should not allow it to again go above that number. But that's just my personal interpretation.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')veryone is squirming trying not to look in the eye at the truth of what you are saying

[Newfie]

And potentially interesting, although those topics often quickly go over my head.

Are you thinking bit coins or barter or???

I understood money up to the point where it was an abstraction of some tangible value. Such as five coins for ten sheep. After that it lost me.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')oing back to the Guidestones admonition to keep humanity to below 500,000,000. I'd not NOT read that as saying there should be some mass genocide. I read that as saying there will be a mass die off taking human population to well below 500 million and that we should not allow it to again go above that number. But that's just my personal interpretation.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'A')nd potentially interesting, although those topics often quickly go over my head.

Are you thinking bit coins or barter or???

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')So, if those of your ilk comes into power and wish to execute your plan to make the planet and human's place within it, subject to some sort of death cult thinking, then count me out. You will have to kill me to do that. Which one of you wants to pull the trigger on me or my family? Or are such distasteful things handled by someone else?

[Ibon]

Let's get back to the question of killing people.

Last year the Honduran children were coming across the border illegally and many here in the US were proposing to send them back to violence and poverty, surely many died that could have been saved. We all remember that well. But for most folks these are some other countries problem.

Now lets remember the great depression when road blocks were set up in California and violent malitia mobs would prevent the Okies and other displaced prairie folks from migrating to California. These were our own fellow Americans that suffered such indignity.

Now let's jump forward. WE have Cog as an old man, his son, comfortable in Illinois, a moderately populated state that would easily be self sufficient in food production with all those deep black prairie soils. But times have changed. Climate refugees by the millions from Miami, Houston, New Orleans, Beloxi, Charleston, New York, Boston, Newark, are on the move as rising sea levels have forced them to migrate inland. This happens during a 10 year drought where that corn and soy in Illinois has suffered 5 years of failed harvest. The silos are empty.

What happens? How do we balance our civic duty to help our fellow american climate refugees against our personal self interest to preserve and protect the sustainability of our communities and town against an invasion of hungry "outsiders"

These may one day represent the kinds of tensions that will force us to make those hard decisions that will accelerate the death of our fellow human beings.

If that day comes you will be complicit in killing others by putting up once again those road blocks.

Things can jump from brown Honduran children to your own fellow citizens in a few short decades.

The degree to which we sacrifice for the commons will help mitigate such tragedies. It will be everyone's civic duty.

Don't you think we will do this willingly to prevent such death?

I believe we will up until a certain point. It really depends on that food supply and how constrained it can get. When it comes close to starvation all bets are off.

[Newfie]

Dave,

Do you seriously that even with the reforms you speak of Earth could sustain 7.5 billion to 10 billion souls?

Second, do you seriously believe there is any chance of these reforms being implemented?

As to the money explanation.....thanks. But I just don't get it. Perhaps I'm just too concrete, all that abstraction looses me. It becomes just a game of Monopoly, the rules are not based on physical cause and effect, they are arbitrary and variable.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'D')ave,

Do you seriously that even with the reforms you speak of Earth could sustain 7.5 billion to 10 billion souls?

Second, do you seriously believe there is any chance of these reforms being implemented?

As to the money explanation.....thanks. But I just don't get it. Perhaps I'm just too concrete, all that abstraction looses me. It becomes just a game of Monopoly, the rules are not based on physical cause and effect, they are arbitrary and variable.

[Newfie]

Thanks,

I take you points as valid. I just don't want to plan on either thing happening. If it does, great.

[Tanada]

I started this topic for a simple reason. Recently I have been reading Star's Reach by Greer,
john-michael-greer-star-reach-t71613.html
and it got me to thinking about the next 500 years and how or if the people alive then might react to the Georgia Guidestones. They are assembled at the top of a hill and there is no chance at all that sea level rise will reach them until weathering wears them away over the next 100,000 years or so, like Mount Rushmore things made of Granite are made to last.

Having taken classes in widely ranging fields and being a history minded person I know that many many different cultures have existed in the past, and if globalism falls apart I expect many many more diverse cultures to exist in the future as well. Well over half of the cultures that have existed practiced both slavery and castration of some men and boys, it was actually quite common in Italy from 1600-1850 and was common in the Ottoman Empire all through the middle east and east Asia.

Sometimes it was done as punishment, sometimes for silly reasons like maintaining soprano voices for Opera and sometimes as a requirement for holding a responsible position in the government Bureaucracy. Thinking that humans will not venture into the practice in the future is a very hopeful thought, from one point of view.

However even today there is Slavery practiced all over the world including the women forced into sex slavery in the USA. Sorry if you find the real world offensive, but your sense of offense is based on a very narrow cultural context of late 20th Century American values not the broad Anthropological context of human history.

[Cog]

We used something called the Hoffman Castrator on the farm. It was a two handled clamp that we put on either side of the bull's balls and when you clamped it down it crushed the blood vessels to the balls. Sort of like a branch trimmer but with blunt edges. If you were careful you never cut the skin of the ball sack and the balls fell off in a few weeks. The bulls didn't like it a great deal so you had to pin them up against the barn so they didn't move around a lot.

Thanks for a trip down memory lane.

I wonder if castrating your own kids would end you up in pound-me-in-ass prison. It should for those of you pyschopaths thinking about it.

[onlooker]

Tanada and Ibon make certain points which to me are the most interesting in attempting to divine a possible or probable future for human kind. It is the dichotomy of the barbaric and brutal with the gentle-spiritual-enlightened. Some would argue that our nature is to be brutish and can attest to this by showcasing the history of humanity. They would also argue that even in the relatively recent times when the planet has been civilized and blessed with abundance mankind still engages in barbaric behaviors. That is true, but I do think we have evolved and their is a segment of the population that one can find in all countries who are spiritual and pacifist in their nature. In our civilized world resides many who are virtuous in their nature and who would be the type of persons that can create a community with as the Guidestones refer too would value love, truth and beauty along with compassion and justice. This then would be a possible future human society borne from the common experiences of suffering, tumult and deprivation.

[Newfie]

Naw, the brutes will eat 'em.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'N')aw, the brutes will eat 'em.

[Newfie]

Ah, the eternal optimist!

We will never know, so I'll let it rest.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'N')aw, the brutes will eat 'em.

[Newfie]

More the ebb than flow I suspect.