[onlooker]

Basically I have read I believe sufficient about this topic to understand the underlying reasons why this is actually a product of the for profit health industry of the US and bears the hallmark of another case of the corporations wishing to make lots of money off of the masses without caring about negative consequences. First of all, the body is a fine tuned miraculous thing which given the proper attention especially with regards to diet, exercise and sufficient sleep can heal itself and maintain relative health through almost all the natural life span of a human. Second, all the prescription medicines are synthetic-artificial and as such are foreign to the body so that the body can interpret them as an attack or simply not know how to handle them thus all the associated reported side-effects. Third, by becoming accustomed to using them one is weakening ones own body and its marvelous capabilities. Now their may a specific cases especially of an urgent nature whereby one can temporarily use this medicine but I would recommend always to if possible stay away from these medicines and instead treat your body like its the only one you have which is of course true.

[SeaGypsy]

We cannabis advocates agree generally that there is a very easy solution to big pharma, that is to allow people in a free market to control their own medicine & health. The nanny state war on certain classes of drugs simultaneous to pumping pharmaceuticals out like candy, many of which create lifelong dependencies is beyond a joke.

[onlooker]

You know Sea, this is where I repudiate my left tendencies and admit that Government is part of the problem of course along with greedy Corps.

[SeaGypsy]

OL, everyone here who knows my history is aware I don't define as left or right. My position on drugs is thoroughly libertarian. Both left & right mainstream have been owned by the MIC & big pharma for longer than I have been alive. The need for self tagging as we see in 6 strings' mind crunching- useless & blinding machinations fed endlessly by the propaganda machine of the Ministry of Love.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'O')L, everyone here who knows my history is aware I don't define as left or right. My position on drugs is thoroughly libertarian. Both left & right mainstream have been owned by the MIC & big pharma for longer than I have been alive. The need for self tagging as we see in 6 strings' mind crunching- useless & blinding machinations fed endlessly by the propaganda machine of the Ministry of Love.

[dissident]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/how-pharm ... -1.3125251

I wonder why I hear so much bitching about VW's little hack (yes it is little) and not much about the outright mafia extortion being practiced by pharmaceutical companies.

It is galling that politicians are such whores for these companies and give them all sorts of protection to run their rackets even though it was taxpayer money that funded the research to develop these drugs.

[Cog]

I rarely see a doctor but the last time I went to mine, I asked about this fascination with taking pills to fix underlying problems. What she told me was essentially this. "I always recommend a different path first. Most people's problems that I treat are related to being overweight, not getting exercise, or some other lifestyle issue. I always recommend changing the lifestyle first. But when I see they won't do that, I prescribe the pills to keep them alive"

I found her honesty quite refreshing.

[Logic]

Dangerous over generalizations.
Yes, I agree big pharma is a serious problem and many people end up taking drugs the don't need.

However, the "natural life span" you mention is about 35-40 years. Thanks, but no thanks.

And if you, yourself, are going to mention exemptions to your arbitrary rule, perhaps you should avoid sweeping statements which state there are no exceptions. Try using "many" instead of "all" and such.

I may be biased as the only reason I am alive is big pharma.

[onlooker]

Okay Logic I get where you are coming from. Yes like I said in some cases synthetic drugs are necessary. That is why I also stated if "possible" get off them. lifelong dependencies as referred to be Sea is also a problem. One can only hope Logic and others in the same situation never lose their health insurance or they may be without these life sustaining medicines. Yet I will go to my grave convinced that in most cases we do not need these medicines and in many ways as I explained they make things worse. Finally, from my sources the maximum natural life span of a human is actually 120 years.

[SeaGypsy]

The 30-40 years is just an average. In fact if all modern pharma vanished overnight, dieoff would begin tomorrow & not be temporary. Firstly all the physically dependent- diabetics, heart & stroke survivors, then the cancers & mental health- behaviourally managed, then the rest of us mostly over the next few years from common staphylococci infections- which we have seriously compromised 99% of the world's immunity with common antibiotics.

Swings & roundabouts.

Some remote tribes in Australia averaged 72 if they made it to 5, 20 years longer than they live now.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')he 30-40 years is just an average. In fact if all modern pharma vanished overnight, dieoff would begin tomorrow & not be temporary. Firstly all the physically dependent- diabetics, heart & stroke survivors, then the cancers & mental health- behaviourally managed, then the rest of us mostly over the next few years from common staphylococci infections- which we have seriously compromised 99% of the world's immunity with common antibiotics.

Swings & roundabouts.

Some remote tribes in Australia averaged 72 if they made it to 5, 20 years longer than they live now.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Logic', 'D')angerous over generalizations.

[jedrider]

I agree that, in general, prescription medicine should NOT be taken without lengthy consideration of alternatives. First, NOBODY sees a doctor to maintain health. I've never heard of that. Am I wrong here? You go to a doctor when you have a problem! Now, doctors like to prescreen for problems, and I always hear said that many ailments are benign and even when they detect them, not doing anything may have the same statistical outcome as with medical intervention. I'm on the fence about that.

I know a doctor who had psoriasis. She became vegetarian or nonlactarian, one of those, and cured herself. I have a friend with psoriasis who takes powerful medicine to keep it at bay because that's what the doctor's generally advise. Interesting how he develops drugs, too, for the pharmaceutical industry sometimes.

I really have issue that doctors are the last word in maintaining health. Personally, I see a witch doctor when I have problems. Sometimes, however, I just live with the problems for too long, though.

[SeaGypsy]

I try to do it myself, including cauterization of BSC, hydrogen peroxide 6% for dermal & oral antibiotic, very lean diet, regular breaks from beer & aromatic herbs, occasional shamanic ethnobotanical adventures, keeping a young perspective in as much as possible despite my rational doomerism.
I am 48, haven't needed a doctor for over 20 years, & never needed more than a course of Clavinates. I am about 6 weeks discipline off same fitness as late 20's, still do physical work daily (mainly hauling tonnes of produce on pallet sliders)
My ancestors either die from stress related bad habits in their 50's or go long & hard into their late 80's. My mum is 72, teaching yoga, travelling the world, having a blast & not on any sustained med regime.

[Outcast_Searcher]

All drugs have side effects. Weighing the problem the drug is trying to fix vs. the risk from the side effects is rational. Trying the drug if you have a real medical problem to address, and seeing how the side effects impact you, and then deciding on whether to take the drug, take an alternative drug, or not take the drug is rational.

Saying "you should not take prescription drugs" with no qualifiers is NOT rational. It's the science denial mentality of "I should trust my intuition over all the evidence".

As an example, I have hypertension in my family for generations. Sure enough, in my early 30's, I got to the point taking prescription drugs to control my hypertension was highly advisable. (And I was already at a very healthy weight, exercised regularly, ate a reasonable diet, never added salt, etc. -- so jumping to the conclusion that it was all a "lifestyle issue" is incorrect. Same story for my mother, etc).

So, I took a beta blocker and dealt with the slightly dry mouth it tended to cause by consulting with my dentist and drinking water very regularly, toting around a water bottle. Later, I took an ACE inhibitor. The common mild cough it often causes went away after a few months, and didn't bother me once I understood the probable source.

25 years later, looking at the long term risk to my heart, my kidneys, my overall cardiovascular system, etc. -- I'm very confident that in my case (and many other hypertensive people, to cite this ONE medical condition) definitely SHOULD take prescription medication.

Now, certainly drug companies do push pills, to enhance their profits. I notice they've gone to pushing taking pills for "pre-hypertension", where the numbers aren't far above textbook perfect numbers. I'm not a doctor, but I can see the point that for cases like that, the cost and risk of the drugs might well outweigh the benefits. Again, a rational, balanced look at the situation WITH your doctor, considering the scientific data and the individual patient's situation would seem to be a far better approach than an arm-waving claim that "all prescription drugs are bad".

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', 'I') agree that, in general, prescription medicine should NOT be taken without lengthy consideration of alternatives. First, NOBODY sees a doctor to maintain health. I've never heard of that. Am I wrong here?

[onlooker]

First I wonder how this thread I created got so side tracked from prescription medicine. I did say prescription medicine not medical checkups , apparatus use, interventions etc etc. Second, I think in fact you guys did not read carefully what jerider said " maintain" health, not monitor health. Yes traditional medicine is great for monitoring health and for interventions when health has been compromised. But for maintaining health not so much. Prevention is always better than cure. For that you first and foremost eat right, then you also exercise and sleep well. Finally in general you avoid exposure to harmful substances or activities which is actually now the tricky part as we live in such a contaminated world.

[jedrider]

The reason why the thread seems to get sidetracked is the equating of medical care == science, as if to question medical practice is synonymous with questioning science. We are questioning the APPLICATION of science only. I talked to a Dentist about how they run their profession so much better than the rest of medicine, and he seemed to indicate that there very little they have in common with the medical field except some shared medical science, which should be obvious because you need a SEPARATE plan for dental coverage than for medical coverage.