$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat's all this metaphysical mumbo jumbo? You are you. You are here (wherever your here is). And the future is coming whether you want it or not. How you live in the future depends, at least partially, on what decisions and what you do in the everlasting now. The matrix is a fictional story (a very entertaining and well done story, but just as story nontheless). And a very, very highly improbable one based on someone's imagination, of which too many of we humans have been blessed/cursed.
Its OK to enjoy the entertainment of the alternative realities and possible futures that are developed through science fiction stories, but it is a very bad idea to start thinking they might be true. That way lies self-delusion and psychosis.
You might as well become a fundamentalist christian.
PeakOil is You
Is Peak Oil a just one clue in a larger riddle?
by jockc » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 12:58:13
Such rigid thinking is the same type as that which would, in historic times, have denied that the earth is round or that the earth is not the center of the universe. Obviously the sun is going around the earth, right? And in fact many scientists debate about things that appear true to us nowadays, but may not be, such as the passage of time, and human free will.
You and I have no idea what reality REALLY IS so to state with such absolute assurance of what it is not is somewhat arrogant. The matrix is not a good story, its a poor story about an intriguing concept. (ok, if they had stopped after one it would have been a good story) And I don't think you can dismiss that concept with a handwave if it doesn't fit your preconceived notions about reality.
Jaseywasey wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') actually thought there was some value in this theory, until I found out about Peak Oil.
The fact that we are experiencing peak oil and depletion does not affect the simulation argument. Our world does not have to be the same as the simulator's world. We can't assume much about them (such as that they had to face peak anything)..
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by jaseywasey » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 19:28:21
Of course Peak Oil does not mean these simulations will not be run.
Radio waves describing every aspect of our way of life have been been transmitted across the universe for the last 100 years, enabling distant Alien races to recreate our current civilisation on a computer, millions of light years from now.
The odds are truly stacked against us that we are the first humans and that we are "real", however it still doesn't change are current predicament.
We can't even believe that a benevolent alien/future human will save us, to them we are no different to the aliens we destroy on "our" computer games. If they are not concerned about all the current suffering in the world, they are certainly not going to change the game, just as it gets to the exciting part!
Radio waves describing every aspect of our way of life have been been transmitted across the universe for the last 100 years, enabling distant Alien races to recreate our current civilisation on a computer, millions of light years from now.
The odds are truly stacked against us that we are the first humans and that we are "real", however it still doesn't change are current predicament.
We can't even believe that a benevolent alien/future human will save us, to them we are no different to the aliens we destroy on "our" computer games. If they are not concerned about all the current suffering in the world, they are certainly not going to change the game, just as it gets to the exciting part!
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by jimmydean » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 19:37:35
A matrix concept may not be too far fetched for future generations.
If we look at current increased computer dependance the concept of a neural to computer interface for faster processing is quite plausible. Extend that concept to a point the interface may link us all with a computer that is able to simulate a vision of reality so that we sustain ourselves in a dream-like state with minimal real world energy costs in the non-matix world.
Scary and interesting.
If we look at current increased computer dependance the concept of a neural to computer interface for faster processing is quite plausible. Extend that concept to a point the interface may link us all with a computer that is able to simulate a vision of reality so that we sustain ourselves in a dream-like state with minimal real world energy costs in the non-matix world.
Scary and interesting.
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by aldente » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 19:50:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaseywasey', '
')The basic premise is that, in the future, humans (or posthumans as the author calls them) will have such powerful computers, they will be able to run historical simulations. Since these simulations will be so useful, the chances are that lots of them will be run and therefore the chances of you-or-I living in the real world, become smaller and smaller.
')The basic premise is that, in the future, humans (or posthumans as the author calls them) will have such powerful computers, they will be able to run historical simulations. Since these simulations will be so useful, the chances are that lots of them will be run and therefore the chances of you-or-I living in the real world, become smaller and smaller.
This is a very cool concept and one has to bend its mind quite a bit to follow, yet the way he concludes essentially closes the circle and leaves us where we started, quote:
Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost certainly never run an ancestor-simulation.
Duh!
Nevertheless, if one overcomes the notion that AI can only be created by our silicon based "stone age" computers (as advanced as they might be), and if we overcome the idea that truly advanced systems (beyond silicon) must be based where we are (earth) then the concept must not be dismissed automatically. Simulation of consciousness might not be dependend on the same parameters that limit the observer. In other words as real an energy crisis the observer faces (us here right now), it might not at all affect our consciousness (as much a worst case scenario the extinction of the physical body might be - for the physical body)!
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by jockc » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 20:24:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e can't even believe that a benevolent alien/future human will save us, to them we are no different to the aliens we destroy on "our" computer games. If they are not concerned about all the current suffering in the world, they are certainly not going to change the game, just as it gets to the exciting part!
Yes, but the aliens we destroy (or allow to be destroyed) in our computer games are not sentient. If they were, and we knew for sure they were, wouldn't we view the game and them differently?
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