[zoidberg]

Contraception is fine. Egg and sperm don't combine. But pp cannot be allowed to exist they have gone insane, even if part of their mandate is ethically clear. The part that thrives on death had contaminated the whole organization.


Plus their origin s are racist and eugenicust. But thats just extra.

The moronic question is rhetorical. I had hoped for a i see the light type of response.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'B')ut anyway regardless of this earthly political farce . . . Cog, Zoid, jesus_of_suburbia: are you or have you ever been, tongue-talking chicken-headed religious fanatics who believe mankind is not governed by the laws of nature? If so then you must declare your allegiance to the Pentecost
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen the day of Pentecost had come they were all together in one place. And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed as resting upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit… (Acts 2:1-4).

[Cog]

The OP asked a simple question and I chimed in with a link to the undercover video describing what PP is up to. In response we get hysteria, religion bashing, and all sorts of butt hurt. Sort of funny but sad. Neither myself or the OP brought religion into the discussion. Most atheists and agnostics have some sort of conceptual understanding of evil or immoral behavior without a God. Perhaps you guys are different.

It was a simple question. Is PP evil for harvesting aborted fetuses for profit?

I swear you social justice warriors just can't seem to have a well reasoned out discussion. Bad upbringing I suspect.

[Pops]

I looked around a little and found this guy at The Federalist (right wing right?) talking about the vids. He seems plenty reasonable.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hen there’s the quote about the Lamborghini. When dollar amounts are brought up again, Gatter tables the discussion for later, but says: “It’s been years since I talked about compensation, so let me just figure out what others are getting, if this is in the ballpark, it’s fine, if it’s still low then we can bump it up. I want a Lamborghini. [laughs]” It’s clear that this was a joke, in the vein of gallows humor. What it isn’t is what many people are taking it as: a straightforward admission of greed for ill-gotten gains.

Of course, it’s easy to use “context” as an excuse to explain anything away. But it’s also easy to view the Planned Parenthood videos through the perspective of your pre-existing animus and seize on the worst possible interpretation of their words, or focus on the one sentence that justifies your hatred while ignoring those that might undermine your justification.

[Sixstrings]

Here's my understanding of this issue.

1. Apparently, researchers need the fetal tissue, to research new drugs / treatments / "cure for alzheimers" or whatever.

2. I remember way back when when W. Bush approved stem cell research and using embryos / eggs -- I never realized this included fetal tissue, though.

3. Those undercover videos were really horrible.

4. The main issue, that I haven't seen anyone on tv or in the media or political leadership address, is simply the question of whether fetal tissue should be used AT ALL. I'm kind of thinking it shouldn't. "Defunding planned parenthood" is neither here nor there, what needs to be addressed is the practice of fetal tissue research itself. Is it REALLY necessary. If they've been doing it for ten or twenty years or whatever, then what the hell has been cured in that time? I haven't heard about any cures.

It should just be looked at, is it really necessary, and if it is then there should be AN ETHICAL way of collecting the tissue that is not so disgusting as what was in those undercover video reports.

Abortion procedures should NEVER be altered, so as to attain a better specimen. That's actually already illegal. Secondly, there should ALWAYS be consent, obtained. Thirdly -- I just wonder if it should all be banned (not abortion, the issue is the fetal tissue stuff).

5. If not banned, then the fetal tissue issue should be getting A LOT OF GOVERNMENT REGULATION. I haven't seen the central issue addressed by anyone. It's not the abortions, it's the fetal tissue stuff -- so why not just ban that. I'd like to see it explained as to why they need the fetal tissue -- why aren't eggs and simple stem cells good enough?

6. I'm just giving my opinion, I'm not making this a big issue I care about -- like everyone else, I'd rather not think about it, but I gotta tell you, those videos really pushed me a bit toward pro life.

Maybe things need to be rethought, a bit. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but maybe there should be no abortions after the first trimester? (excepting health of the mother)

I think that's the most problematic and disturbing thing, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm talking about 2nd trimester abortions and then what these videos are about -- using the fetal tissue -- that was just over the top and gut-level wrong.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'W')e've all heard the stories. Planned parenthood sells baby parts for profit. One lady bragged about needing a new Lamborghini. They did it without consent and they insist we all pay for and endorse their crazy position. Hoping for babies to be killed so they can profit think about it. Never say you could never end up in the promotion of evil. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I've said before this planned parenthood was evil. Can we now agree?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'A')n individual, especially women who are still commodities in the eyes of men, has a sovereign right as to what they do with their body. It is a fundamental liberty contemplated in any civilised society.

[americandream]

six

I hardly think that research institutes and abortion clinics will generally operate environments that could be construed as barbaric, even under the user pays system you have in the US. Obviously there will be the odd instance but that hardly warrants men poking their noses into an area best decided by women, their bodies.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 's')ix

I hardly think that research institutes and abortion clinics will generally operate environments that could be construed as barbaric, even under the user pays system you have in the US. Obviously there will be the odd instance but that hardly warrants men poking their noses into an area best decided by women, their bodies.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 's')ix

I hardly think that research institutes and abortion clinics will generally operate environments that could be construed as barbaric, even under the user pays system you have in the US. Obviously there will be the odd instance but that hardly warrants men poking their noses into an area best decided by women, their bodies.

[zoidberg]

The matter isn't about a women s right to an abortion. She has the right. But but but that doesn't mean plannned parenthood gets to profit from it. A line in the sand is crossed here beyond roe vs wade. Abortions needs to be done ethically and humanely. If the baby can survive a c section it should be done and baby placed for adoption. If not it cant be given or sold to anyone.

But this is about planned parenthood. Shall I place you down in league with them? Absent their condemnation of course. So far no one has said yes I support planned parenthood.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'T')he matter isn't about a women s right to an abortion. She has the right. But but but that doesn't mean plannned parenthood gets to profit from it.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he OP asked a simple question and I chimed in with a link to the undercover video describing what PP is up to. In response we get hysteria, religion bashing, and all sorts of butt hurt. Sort of funny but sad. Neither myself or the OP brought religion into the discussion. Most atheists and agnostics have some sort of conceptual understanding of evil or immoral behavior without a God. Perhaps you guys are different.

It was a simple question. Is PP evil for harvesting aborted fetuses for profit?

I swear you social justice warriors just can't seem to have a well reasoned out discussion. Bad upbringing I suspect.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'T')he matter isn't about a women s right to an abortion. She has the right. But but but that doesn't mean plannned parenthood gets to profit from it.

[AgentR11]

"Evil" is a philosophical / religious term. The writer, in general, defines their position on good and evil, and then proceeds from that point.

Law is an entirely different construct, defined by a large compilation of text produced over several centuries in several nations; plenty of evil things are legal, and plenty of just and moral things are illegal. And this is not necessarily a mistake in need of correction.

So, eg.
I am Catholic.
By any definition that I have any emotional or conscience based ties to, the doctors that work at Planned Parenthood are every bit as evil and malevolent as any individual mass murderer who has ever walked the planet. They are also legally entitled to continue their activities, for profit or not, as they see fit, without threat of disruption or interference. Performing these malevolent acts serves the interests of the society in which they live, and so one should not be surprised that the Law protects their activity, even if that activity is incredibly evil. It is thus, not my, or anyone else's business to interfere with said activities in any way other than through campaigning to change the law and, if able, providing financial support to assist those who choose not to kill their child even if that child may present a financial hardship.

Now... Bob. Bob is doohikiterian.
Doohikiterian doctrine is that the fetus is nothing more than a parasytic lump of meat until it is delivered, live and complete. Abortion thus is neither good nor evil,no more so than snipping a toenail. And as long as the providers of the snipping service are honest in their advertisements and fees, they can be viewed as "good", in the sense of any other merchant that is providing a valued service, safely, to a seeking customer.

OTOH... there is Vile Jim. Vile Jim thinks humans are evil and should never reproduce, and thus thinks any abortion is an objective good; whether performed voluntarily by PP; or on some table in China or India without regard to whether the female adult wants one or not. To Vile Jim, PP would be seen as a fundamental bastion of goodness, and its doctors saints by definition.

The Law however, is NOT about good and evil. It is about standards of conduct which serve the material interests of the state and the society it governs. Nothing more. Nothing less. A set of rules with predictable outcomes so that all x-odd hundred million of us can go about our lives doing things that others may view as evil (or good), without concern, so long as those actions are within the permission of the Law. And for a nation as diverse as ours, understanding that, and being thankful for that body of Law, is a ....

Good Thing (tm).

[zoidberg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he OP asked a simple question and I chimed in with a link to the undercover video describing what PP is up to. In response we get hysteria, religion bashing, and all sorts of butt hurt. Sort of funny but sad. Neither myself or the OP brought religion into the discussion. Most atheists and agnostics have some sort of conceptual understanding of evil or immoral behavior without a God. Perhaps you guys are different.

It was a simple question. Is PP evil for harvesting aborted fetuses for profit?

I swear you social justice warriors just can't seem to have a well reasoned out discussion. Bad upbringing I suspect.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'S')o you support planned parenthood. Shall you write it down, plainly here?
Now I'm more curious how Theres arguments all around but no one is stepping up to stand shoulder to shoulder with the organization. At least here.Not firing at other posters but a clear sratment of support.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'S')o you support planned parenthood. Shall you write it down, plainly here?
Now I'm more curious how Theres arguments all around but no one is stepping up to stand shoulder to shoulder with the organization. At least here.Not firing at other posters but a clear sratment of support.