[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')till missing the point. Cog & me, & other 'morons' in your view, are not waiting to have our minds changed, we are waiting to kill your army.

If it makes killing your guys easier to give them labels of derision, this is in keeping with the traditions of war, yet who in this debate is underestimating their enemy?

[SeaGypsy]

Umm, hello? You are a king right? You will definitely need an army Mr King. Others will want to kill you and your army, as per normal, Dear Regent.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'U')mm, hello? You are a king right? You will definitely need an army Mr King. Others will want to kill you and your army, as per normal, Dear Regent.

[Cog]

I would like to believe that AD has left the field of battle but I'm doubting it.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') would like to believe that AD has left the field of battle but I'm doubting it.

[SeaGypsy]

Part of your condition AD is an incomprehension of personal empathy. Consequentially you fail to grasp that mass support for a radical solution is an extremely difficult sell, made harder by alienating swathes of the populace right off the bat. The reality is that a movement to do such change en masse will only come about by force. Given the timing in the long emergency, thinking a totalitarian nightmare government can sustain dominant force, at global scale, is ludicrous.

Along with probably most here I don't believe a top down solution is possible, nor do I believe a meaningful social revolution has legs at scale. The forces at play are beyond reconciliation & chaos & war are virtually inevitable.

Advice: forget about being King. Try to write believable, saleable scenarios & try to make sure at least a microcosm model comes into being- to point at & say "see, it works!"

[americandream]

SG

Now that was a reasonable reply.

Objectivity relates to commodities not human relationships. A secular modernity that is objective will be fully sensuous at all organic levels. So your fears though understandable are unfounded. I post on these matters in detail...between tracking the markets so I am sorry if I do not target you as comprehensively as you feel you need. I will put something together for you at the weekend and pm you with a better explanation.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')hanks SeaGypsy for illustrating the 3 main groups that inhabit this board. I have no issues with those who advocate and live a low consumption lifestyle. Some years ago I adopted that lifestyle myself. But I CHOOSE to do so. I do not want that choice thrust upon on me by some activist or some government who believes they know better than me how to live my life. Womb to tomb socialism is on the rise in the USA and I want no part of the process.

What is so bizarre, IMO, is that some of the same folks who argue for localization and a more simple life, absolutely love the heavy hand of a federal government to force this on everyone. There is where I part company with their argument.

If we are truly doomed, which I doubt in the short term, then let me eat my steak and drive my truck in peace.

As far as hating AD. I hate what he stands for, when I can even understand what he is posting, which isn't often.

[onlooker]

"I am not sure if the government will readily enforce such as it only gains more power through increased economic activity." I do not think this accurately describes governments source of power. Government attain and remain in power by providing for the necessities of the populace, by cleverly manipulating public opinion via media and false canards ala War on Terrorisim to make the government look good and to rally everyone around a common enemy and thus achieving the dual goal of framing the government as the benevolent protector as well as diverting attention from the deficiencies or abuses by government. Finally they maintain power with the absolute and total control of overwhelming force via the Military.

[onlooker]

I would like to address the 3 categories that were alluded too as mostly comprising the types of posters on this site. I actually agree. The question is can these 3 types be reconciled. I do not think they can but I do think reality can dictate the mutual coexistence of two of them, mainly the type who wished to be left alone and the type that wished an enforced revolution and rule by a benevolent system/govt. A ruling body can mandate the right to privacy and freedom of intrusive mandates. On the other hand those who wished to be left alone are similar to those who refuse to accept that extreme perturbations are headed our way. The way they are similar is they are ignoring reality. The latter by refusing to see what is plain to see, the former by thinking they can live in their little bubble of calm and the world around them will and must leave them alone. The world neither will nor must leave them alone. They must integrate themselves with the wider world in order to be part of the solution or else they are part of the problem. No safe haven now for anyone the problems besetting humanity have gone global so their is nowhere to hide.