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Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 03:52:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')f you bothered to follow this story you would know that the confederate flag had basically died 100 years ago, after reconstruction, and was only resurrected in the late 1950's and '60's. It resurfaced in response to the Civil Rights Movement, meant to trick and terrify integrationists and their good works.


I already made that same point, upthread. I know all of that pstarr, I know American history very well.

My state took it down from the capitol back in the 90s.

What's going too far though is ebay banning things. They have banned confederate flags, but yet still sell nazi swastikas. We're into some off the rails territory here. This is America, we have freedom of speech, Southern culture is a very big thing and it is not just this one crazy KID or David Duke back in the 90s or the horrors of the KKK in the great depression (mostly) and then the civil rights era.

If we want to talk about real responses and measures then it should be background checks on guns, and also about the voting rights restrictions in some red states, but you can't come after core culture and civil war re-enactors and people talking about pulling up war dead memorials and who knows what is next -- maybe some national parks and heritage sites shut down, other historical sites losing funding, etc. That's not the answer.

That's what my concern is here. You have to realize the South does have a culture and it is not all racists, ok?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he argument that the flag represented States Rights was/is pure hogwash.


They were different times. People were from their STATE, identified that way, and then north vs. south, moreso than "American." We were a younger country. It's just how it was, if "Virginia" went to war, that meant Robert E. Lee had to be with Virginia.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat was also made during the Civil Rights era. The flag was/is about slavery--plain and simple.


No, it's not. Look I don't have a rebel flag and I don't want one, but neither do I want to be made to feel guilty because I see the good and not just the bad in our American history, ok?

Pstarr, do you really think Robert E. Lee was an evil man, or something?

What's your opinion on Thomas Jefferson? President Andrew Jackson?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') knew you were a warmonger, but had no idea you were a closet racist also.


I'm concerned historical sites may get shut down and that monuments are going to get pulled up. What do you think about that.

What about these civil war re-enactments. Is that unacceptable now, as well?

I think I'd like to hear how other Southerners feel, about this.

* I'm in 100% agreement on taking the confederate flag down from government public places, I think monuments and historical sites may be a different matter -- we have several old forts in my state that actually fly every flag that's ever flown over it, including the union jack and Spanish flag.

Maybe historical sites and museums would be different, and memorials. Whenever i've seen this flag, it's always flown next to the stars and stripes.

* I consistently speak out about the voting rights situation, if someone wants an issue then go after that but not civil war re-enactors.

Anyhow I'd rather hear what other Southerners think about this. Honestly I have never thought of racism when I see that flag, we've had the New South since the 1970s for goodness sake, the whole history is always presented. A flag represents culture and history it's not just the bad things, pstarr.

(guys look, all I'm talking about are the kind of people that do civil war re-enactments. If you know anything about these kinds of people, they are not "kkk" or racists or white supremacists.

Things seem to be fine in my community, there was an article about our confederate memorial and the NAACP chairman interviewed said it's not offensive. So it looks like we don't have a problem. Look folks we've got CONQUISTADOR historical sites as well, ok? Those were seriously bad dudes, ok?!

In recent years they added sections about native americans, AND THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE handled.

It's history, folks. There is good and there is bad to it, and lessons to be learned.)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 04:40:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'W')rong Six. You must get your news from FOX TV.

If you bothered to follow this story you would know that the confederate flag had basically died 100 years ago, after reconstruction, and was only resurrected in the late 1950's and '60's. It resurfaced in response to the Civil Rights Movement, meant to trick and terrify integrationists and their good works. The argument that the flag represented States Rights was/is pure hogwash. That was also made during the Civil Rights era. The flag was/is about slavery--plain and simple. The flag was/is a constant reminder of unimaginable cruelty of slavery. It was a wound to every black person who had to look at it. I knew you were a warmonger, but had no idea you were a closet racist also.


That must be why these two Democratic racists chose that flag for their 1992 presidential campaign button:

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 04:55:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')hat must be why these two Democratic racists chose that flag for their 1992 presidential campaign button:


Kaiser, what do you think?

I've got pstarr calling me a racist. I don't know if you're from the South or not, but I would really rather hear what moderate SOUTHERNERS think.

I'm just mystified by all this social media political correctness sweeping change zeitgeist / corporate america piles in within 24 hours and it's a massive bandwagon and you wake up the next day and everything is changed.

I'm thinking about a teacher I had back in school, a very good guy, and he was a civil war buff and he liked civil war history and these re-enactments. Now I KNOW he was not a racist.

Did America just change overnight and I did not get the memo? A lot of people are civil war buffs. Jesus H. Christ I'm a war of 1812 buff, too. And revolutionary war. And I'm into both sides of the civil war, all about Lincoln too.

And I'm just confused here, we already dealt with all these issues a very long time ago in the South, and anything I have ever seen as far as confederate history in museums and historical sites ALWAYS tells the whole story and it's handled well, actually.

But I'm a PC / zeitgeist type, so if it's just all taboo now, then oaky I will go along with it.

I think where I would draw the line is for goodness sake, do not take down statues of Robert E. Lee or memorials to the soldiers.

And I've already told you guys about that "rushmore" type thing that Atlanta has, built into a mountain, and the one time I saw a show out there THEY DID A GREAT JOB of incorporating a laser light show that projected onto the monument, and told the civil rights story as well, and told both sides, and then the message at the end was that we have all changed and this is our history.

It's the "New South," I thought we were all past this now, suddenly memorials have to get dug up and I am just a little confused here, by it.

This is the thing in Atlanta I'm talking about, are they going to have to destroy this as well?

Stone Mountain:

Image
Image

http://www.stonemountainpark.com/

People -- do NOT call me a racist. You have no idea, apparently, how many historical and heritage sites there are, all over the South, if you start in removing stuff then that's a big deal and I'm not quite sure that is right.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 05:30:52

Why would someone who has no problem with Islam, which right now today enslaves thousands of black Africans daily, in one form or another, have a problem with Lynch Mob Confederate Flag Wavers (relatively very enlightened people by comparison)?

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 05:55:31

Well this certainly didn't take long. I wonder what group will come up with the definition of what constitutes a right wing hate group. The SPLC perhaps. :lol:

I wonder if being a NRA member will put me on that list of haters. Hopefully. Obviously anyone who owns a gun hates black people. Just like anyone who flies a Confederate flag can't wait to lynch a black man. One wonders where exactly the outrage is about blacks killing other blacks weekly in the big cities. A number far larger than the nine killed by a lone wolf nutjob.

If you think the leftists are done exploiting this current crisis, you really haven't been paying attention. They will come after the churches and gun owners next. Those two groups represent the last stand against the coming tyranny.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... extremism/

House Democrats are urging the Obama administration to issue an "updated assessment" on the dangers posed by "violent right-wing extremist groups" within the United States and to bolster the Department of Homeland Security’s division for evaluating home-grown threats, according to a letter obtained Thursday by The Washington Post.

The letter — which is being circulated by Reps. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.) — follows discussions among dozens of House Democrats about how to respond to the mass murder of nine black churchgoers last week in Charleston, S.C., both legislatively and across the federal government.

According to an analysis by Southern Poverty Law Center, a legal and advocacy organization that tracks hate activity, the man accused in the shooting, Dylann Roof, 21, was active in an online white supremacist community.

The letter, addressed to President Obama and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, suggests that DHS "allocates a disproportionate amount of money and manpower" toward Islamic extremism while "failing to devote adequate resources to violent right-wing extremism."
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 06:01:56

I was deliberately taking the extreme example & the worst obvious tag. Relating to all Muslims having to carry a stain from what maybe 1% of them actually do. If 1% of southern white rednecks were acting out like this it would be a lot more obvious.

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 06:06:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'W')rong Six. You must get your news from FOX TV.

If you bothered to follow this story you would know that the confederate flag had basically died 100 years ago, after reconstruction, and was only resurrected in the late 1950's and '60's. It resurfaced in response to the Civil Rights Movement, meant to trick and terrify integrationists and their good works. The argument that the flag represented States Rights was/is pure hogwash. That was also made during the Civil Rights era. The flag was/is about slavery--plain and simple. The flag was/is a constant reminder of unimaginable cruelty of slavery. It was a wound to every black person who had to look at it. I knew you were a warmonger, but had no idea you were a closet racist also.


Find for me in the First Amendment the right not to be offended. Or perhaps that right is in some other part of the Constitution that I have not read yet. :roll:

By the way, calling Sixstrings a racist is a bad thing and you should feel bad for posting such a thing.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby sparky » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 07:05:57

.
What is wrong with being a racist ,
honoring one ancestors is a fine sentiment
as for battle flags , here is the battle jack of the Ukrainian rebels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_N ... russia.svg
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 07:30:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') was deliberately taking the extreme example & the worst obvious tag. Relating to all Muslims having to carry a stain from what maybe 1% of them actually do. If 1% of southern white rednecks were acting out like this it would be a lot more obvious.

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But don't you understand Seagypsy, by pointing out the obvious, you have to be a racist. Just like Sixstrings is a racist. And I am a racist for even posting this thread. Pops, a moderator on this board, implied I was a racist because I used a Fox news link. Basically, if you disagree with the left agenda, you have to be a racist. This will only get worse folks. People will be targeted and are being targeted if they are not on-board with the fundamental transformation of America in both thought and deed.

From Pops post:

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 07:38:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'B')y the way, calling Sixstrings a racist is a bad thing and you should feel bad for posting such a thing.


I am the only one on this forum, far as I know, that even mentioned that 15,000 people in Charleston marched for peace and against what happened.

Image

Now I'm not being a troll and I'm not being a smartass, I'm being 100% genuine here -- Southerners have actually worked really hard to move forward over the years, it's the "New South," we drove out ugly violent racism a very very long time ago. And the South had reconciliation.

This stuff was all settled, many decades ago, and I am just mystified by a social media / corporate culture that has kneejerk over-reactions to everything.

What ebay did, was over the line.

Trying to pull up monuments to confederate war dead, is over the line.

If anyone starts wanting to shut down historical sites, that's over the line. There are other things that can be done, and are already done -- you just include ALL the history, that's all. Why is this so difficult to understand. Frederick Douglas was a brilliant man, put a statue of him up next to Robert E. Lee. There are MANY prominent African Americans in Southern history.

All I'm saying is just understand the South has a culture. Just don't trash it all. That doesn't help anything. A lot of this is left right blue state / red state stuff. Honestly, the red states are getting pushed as it is -- it's been a LOT of change lately, now if you come digging up statues of Robert E. Lee then look folks that's just a bit much, ok?

The only thing I am speaking out for here, is just the kind of Southerners that you may find in Charleston or New Orleans or other parts of the South, where all they do is that they are interested in history and they do their geneology and maybe they collect some confederate antiques and maybe they know their entire family history going back generations.

And there is just a culture to all of this, ok? It's old homes and restorations and sweet iced tea and collard greens and hush puppies, and country music, and folk music and fiddles and black church gospel music -- it's black culture, too, guys. It's the South. Do not tear it all down and trash it.

Now I can see where, obviously, that flag has horrible connotations too, when misused by certain people. And I'm 100% against that, obviously.

I'm just asking that folks realize it may mean something different, when it's a historical society or civil war re-enactors and things like that, in the right context.


And this thing just needs to go away, because the last thing we need in this country is an argument over Robert E. Lee statues. That's what that terrorist wanted, race problems and "racewar" sh*t. Well that ain't the New South.

So, to the Left I say -- come together, and don't kick a dog when he's down and do not turn into left wing nazis yourselves.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sat 27 Jun 2015, 08:02:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 08:01:36

Here is the deal SixStrings. I probably disagree with you on most things political. You call yourself a centrist, which based on your desires, is probably not where I would place you. But either way, I can at least have a civil argument with you. Anyone who knows Sixstrings, knows he is NOT as racist. To suggest otherwise is a personal attack and is expressly forbidden by the COC of this board. Not that that COC is being enforced by any moderator, even one posting in this thread. But I digress.

What I warned about in my first post was this: The Republic is dead. Congrats on that progressives. Enjoy your new masters.

I was roundly ridiculed for that statement but we have seen it played out in this very thread. Unless you get fully on-board with whatever left narrative is the flavor of the day, you will be attacked. There is no compromise on their part. Unless you fully ingest the Kool-Aid of left thinking, you are worse than the most rabid Rush Limbaugh, Neo-Nazi, KKK-loving asshole.

You are trying to trying to have a reasonable discussion on why Southern heritage is important to people in the South. But, as you can see, reasonable discussions are verboten on this subject. If you think conservative Republicans hate free speech and compromise, wait until you have the other side fully in charge of the agenda.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby dinopello » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 08:42:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')hat's going too far though is ebay banning things. They have banned confederate flags, but yet still sell nazi swastikas.


In my opinion, ebay should be free to not allow anything they want on their corporate site. You think they should be forced to sell the confederate flag? To me, that's not America - forcing businesses to sell something they don't want to sell. Who else do you want to force to sell the confederate flag ?

I'm for recognizing history too, but ultimately statues and monuments etc should be decided by the people through the democratic process.

We have a monument to the WW I vets that were killed in action from my county. It lists the names of all the vets. Then at the bottom it has a section labelled "Colored" where it lists all the black residents who were killed in action. Some people around here wanted to remove the monument or replace it with a new one that doesn't make this distinction. I felt it was a good reminder and was actually impressive that they recognized the black soldiers of WW I at all. Turned out there wasn't a majority desire to do anything so the statue remains. Maybe sometime in the future the popular sentiment will be to replace it and it will happen. So what ? It's a local monument and the people should support it being there.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Pops » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 08:48:35

Like forcing cake decorators to bake homosexual cakes.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby dinopello » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 08:50:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')ike forcing cake decorators to bake homosexual cakes.


That's more like forcing rebel flag stores to sell to northerners, if they also sell to southerners. Or, perhaps I don't understand what a homosexual cake is ?
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 09:04:10

I don't think anyone should force EBay to sell anything, however EBay is jst a clearing house. Individuals and merchants make sales and EBay just facilitates the transactions.

Ebay is free to conduct business however they wish, but bowing to political whims on this issue while continuing to offer Nazi memorabilia is schizophrenia at best, blatant pandering at worst.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Pops » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 09:17:11

I think it is disingenuous to pretend that there are no racists, likewise to pretend any of us have no bias. I think we are all biased and that it is probably instinctual to an extent, mommas think their baby is just the cutest thing ever because if they didn't they would probably not put up with the racket.

I know from experience it is hard to tell just how prejudiced we are as individuals. I didn't realize I had any racist feelings at all until my daughter dated a black guy for a while in high school. I didn't flip out but I was uncomfortable at first and it surprised me. In rural CA there weren't a lot of black people when I was young, the classes were for the most part, whites, Mexicans and Okies. So I didn't have much personal experience but my folks were from the south on my dad's side and they were typical southerners and obviously some south wore off on me.

In that vein, I think getting yer panties in a knot because civil rights activists want to remove icons of past oppression — it isn't "history" — should be a fairly obvious sign, but not that "progressives have won and the republic is dead", but perhaps that that your ideas lost.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Pops » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 09:21:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')ike forcing cake decorators to bake homosexual cakes.


That's more like forcing rebel flag stores to sell to northerners, if they also sell to southerners. Or, perhaps I don't understand what a homosexual cake is ?

You know what I mean, decorating a wedding cake with 2 guys names on it is against someone's religion. The whole religious freedom to discriminate bit.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 09:34:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t Florida Confederate memorial, giant flag still flies, defiantly so

“I don’t know how it just happened overnight,” Wilson said of the backlash against the flag, adding that he intended to keep selling flags at local festivals as a sideline. “I'm not going to let them control me,” he said.

...

For Lambert, the flag still represents a proud history, an era symbolized in that moment in “Gone With the Wind” when Scarlet O’Hara defiantly grabs a handful of earth and shouts, “I'll never be hungry again!”

“It’s the emotional, guttural affinity one has, what’s coursing through your veins, the sweet hills of Alabama or Virginia: your lineage,” Lambert said.

He wishes opponents would come see the memorial before dismissing the flag as part of the shooter’s rampage.

“I’d like them to read the plaques and get a sense of what it’s all about. It’s not hate,” he said. Referring to South Carolina defendant Dylann Roof, he said, “They’re giving him ownership of the flag, and all of the politicians are getting on the bandwagon because it’s easy to do.”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-confederate-flag-tampa-20150626-story.html#page=1


I think what's really going on is some kind of new social media / twitter PC zeitgeist thing where things snowball and decisions are made so fast. People need to slow down just a bit.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow Georgia’s Sons of Confederate Veterans plans to counter ‘attacks against our heritage’

Bridwell also urged the chapter’s members to reach out to state lawmakers to talk about “how those ‘other’ politicians are caving in to the hysteria without any consideration to the millions of Southerners who has and loves their Confederate Heritage.”

And he said the group has enjoyed a “huge spike” in membership interest.
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/06/26/how-georgias-sons-of-confederate-veterans-plans-to-counter-attacks-against-our-heritage/


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ational Cathedral Should Not Be Stained With Confederate Flag, Dean Says
http://www.npr.org/2015/06/27/417981652/national-cathedral-should-not-be-stained-with-confederate-flag-dean-says


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ale Earnhardt Jr. says Confederate flag 'belongs in history books'
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/dale-earnhardt-jr-confederate-flag-comments-belongs-in-history-books-amy-reimann-children-062615


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ebel without a job: South Carolina cop fired after posting photo wearing Confederate flag underwear
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/s-carolina-fired-photo-wearing-confederate-boxers-article-1.2273271

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Confederate flag isn’t just offensive. It’s treasonous.
It celebrates those who took up arms against our country.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/25/the-confederate-flag-isnt-offensive-its-treasonous/

If you look at old pictures, yes it was a lot of racist bigoted stuff in the 1960s. All that segregation stuff. The KKK. That latter was actually worst of all, in the 1930s, in the great depression.

But I don't know guys, it means something different to people doing civil war re-enactments and it's just like a yankee type thing like people in new england have, with the puritans and all that, and Boston has their thing etc.

For that matter, there are people up north that are into civil war re-enactments and civil war history, too.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sat 27 Jun 2015, 10:07:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 Jun 2015, 10:02:42

This is really out of control. First of all much more important things on the plate of humanity then by-gone feuds between Confederates and Union. The act of one looney does not define the South anymore then the act of one defines the North. But of course the MSM is only too glad to broadcast this nonsense and get our minds off of the real problems. As the British say "Stay calm and carry on" or in this case get hysterical over nonsense and carry on.
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