[KaiserJeep]

A light dawns. You actually have some position of authority in the Democrats, don't you? You had no idea that both political parties were and are totally corrupt, did you? You still think that a party membership means something, don't you?

I was where you are, once. I outgrew it almost 30 years ago.

[PrestonSturges]

See how strong your imagination mojo is? If someone won't engage with you, you can't reign in your imagination because you don't have any real opinions of your own that would take up that space. Roof spent a couple years in his bedroom fantasizing about blacks and jews, because he was a loser and fantasy was all he had.

[KaiserJeep]

How do you know these things about Roof? Are you a personal friend? Did the DNC pass around a "talking points" slide so that everyone could coordinate their remarks to achieve the most partisan points about the shooting? Are you only a shill for the Democrats?

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'H')ow do you know these things about Roof? Are you a personal friend? Did the DNC pass around a "talking points" slide so that everyone could coordinate their remarks to achieve the most partisan points about the shooting? Are you only a shill for the Democrats?

[KaiserJeep]

I got lots of friends and no enemies except the tax man. Because there is a solid Democratic majority here. That is just another reason not to like them, aside from their overt racism...they all think if they can steal enough of your money, they can fix the world. They have an almost complete record of failure in that regard.

[PrestonSturges]

Ron Paul fan?

[KaiserJeep]

Can't stand the man. Here, watch this. Nine and a half minutes. This is the Clif Notes version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh75ylAUXY

For real grown-ups, there is the more thoughtful version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU-8Uz_nMaQ

[PrestonSturges]

Well that's a point in your favor, because that's where the "libertarian" white supremacists are. They say his cuts to the social safety net would trigger the "race war" that Roof was dreaming about.

[KaiserJeep]

We crossed posts, I was editing my last message to add some videos.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'S')uch as the fact that you seldom if ever find the major party affiliation of a mass shooting "suspect" published, because they are almost all Democrats.

[KaiserJeep]

It was discussed in another Forum I frequent. This is a cut & paste, I have not verified these:

Ft. Hood shooter – Registered Democrat – Muslim
Columbine shooters – Too young to vote but both families were registered Democrats and progressive liberals.
Virginia Tech shooter – Registered Democrat – Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff.
Colorado Theater shooter – Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal.
Connecticut School Shooter – Registered Democrat; hated Christians.
Congresswoman Gabby Giffords’ shooter – Leftist, registered Democrat.

I'm not suggesting there is anything at play here other than what PS mentioned - Democrats do aggressive voter registration drives at schools and colleges.

It does kind put the wet blanket on the usual Huffington Post spin about the NRA, though.

About three quarters of mass shootings seem to involve people with known mental problems. Although we have a registry for psychiatric patients who are deemed to be a danger to themselves and others, and it is checked by the ATF, last time I heard about it, it had sixty-some names in it, out of several million estimated dangerous mental patients - which is a fair description of up to 3% of our population, about 10 million people. Doctors refuse to list patient names in it.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')t was discussed in another Forum I frequent. This is a cut & paste, I have not verified these:
Ft. Hood shooter – Registered Democrat – Muslim
Columbine shooters – Too young to vote but both families were registered Democrats and progressive liberals.
Virginia Tech shooter – Registered Democrat – Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff.
Colorado Theater shooter – Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal.
Connecticut School Shooter – Registered Democrat; hated Christians.
Congresswoman Gabby Giffords’ shooter – Leftist, registered Democrat.

[Sixstrings]

Great podtcast interview with president obama, he talks about charleston and guns starting 14 min mark:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_PUyAIXTQ[/url]

[KaiserJeep]

Six, I own some guns. But if I wanted to kill a lot of people, I would not use a gun.

A car for example, is a much deadlier weapon. Target a tightly packed crowd of people outside a theater, say. Hold the accelerator down and steer for the highest body count. Two tons of hurtling metal is much better than hundreds of bullets. There is always the chance that you would run up against one of those people who carry a concealed pistol. Using a gun, you would be dead at his hand. With a car, just steer for anybody who aims a weapon in your direction. He loses.

Nine dead at the Church. I could kill at least 90 at the farmer's market on Sunday. They are a tightly packed crowd. As Tanada said:



The deadliest civilian weapon I could think of would be a Humvee with the optional bulletproof glass and run-flat tires, both standard options. With a full tank of gas, you could kill hundreds with impunity. That way, even the SWAT team couldn't stop you.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'S')ix, I own some guns. But if I wanted to kill a lot of people, I would not use a gun.

[Sixstrings]

Kaiser --

Here's what it all comes down to.

I'm assuming, as a conservative, what you really have a problem with is just fear of slippery slope. It would be like somebody back in the 1930s being against drivers' licenses. "heck no, no way, if we let them regulate us a little bit then it will just never end, it's a slippery slope"

When in reality, actually, regulation really can reach a happy medium. Where yes, it's a pain in the rear that we all need drivers' licenses and registrations and have to pay a tax every year, but we also benefit from a lot more public safety, and in the end it's really not much skin off our backs now is it?

So maybe the answer to the gun regulation question is just pass some more things that YOU may personally think would be a bit of a hassle, but that really YOU would not mind. BUT -- just don't do the slippery slope argument, that's really not right, that prevents any problem from ever getting addressed.

What's some gun regulation that really, you personally, could live with? Can you name anything?

I would hope and assume maybe in the interest of school and church safety and public safety, that perhaps you could live with a 10 clip magazine limit. And no semi-automatic assault rifles. Maybe you could live with that, or if someone just loves to shoot off big guns then maybe we can have a compromise where there are gun ranges for the more dangerous semi-auto guns. Otherwise, nobody needs those guns for "hunting." They are not sportsman guns.

Maybe you could live with a longer waiting period? I don't see why not. I think it's a great idea -- a responsible person can wait a few weeks or a month, why not. And then those others -- buying a gun as a solution to some problem they have -- maybe with a waiting period they would cool off. Etc., etc.

And really -- should MINORS have all the same gun rights as adults? Seriously? Why is that necessary? In a couple of these mass shooting incidents, by teens or younger 20ish, it was THEIR PARENTS that gave them the gun.

P.S. in fairness, I have slippery slope "can't give an inch" views as well, like with social security. However -- social security doesn't hurt anybody.

[Sixstrings]

Some updates. South Carolina governor and lindsay graham call for the state to take the confederate flag off the capitol and put it in a museum.

Walmart says it will stop selling confederate flags. (they'll keep selling the guns though! )

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')almart to stop selling Confederate flag merchandise
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/

[Sixstrings]

Just to note, I'm not totally against the right to own a gun. Even though I don't have one, I do not want one, and I personally do not like them. They seem like an accident or trouble waiting to happen. That's what I think about it, that's just me culturally and my family, we never believed in guns in the house and I don't even know anybody that has guns except for some redneck extended family that I don't even mix with.

I actually do not have one single friend, that owns a firearm. Most people are like me, I think, in cities and suburbs -- most people do not really WANT a gun in their house. They don't like them.

How many stories do we see, about someone's kid getting the family gun and then there's a tragedy? Too many.

How many people commit suicide with a gun? Too many.

How many people start waving a gun around, when there's a domestic dispute? Too many.

How many mass shootings have their been? Too many.

Guns are just trouble, it just seems to me that nine times out of ten they are just Trouble.

Having said that -- I realize rural areas are very different from developed cities and suburbia. And I realize small business owners have a real need for self protection. And I also realize, that sometimes there's a woman that's scared to death of some ex, and maybe she hates guns but then she'd get one just in case. So she has that right, too. It's the 2nd amendment. I'm not totally against it.

I'm just saying though, that as much as people think guns protect them, maybe the numbers actually show that all these guns really just cause an awful lot of gun deaths and problems and trouble.

I don't have any guns and I don't want any, but I actually wouldn't want to lose my 2nd amendment right either.

I'm just in the middle on it -- I'm for more regulation, making it safer out in public, safer in schools and churches and public gatherings. That really could be accomplished, yet not take ALL gun rights from responsible citizens.

(p.s. and I know I'm all over the map again, right and left.. I've almost come out for internet censorship, that's what australia does. If there's a racist or jihad site out there, I guess they just block it, to all the public. There are MANY root causes to all these incidents in recent years and yes it is not easy, you can't just start banning websites and banning violent video games and banning all the guns too, I know that.

There's a reason why these most divisive issues are so difficult. EVERY law is always about balancing our freedom and independence with public safety and greater overall good.

And it doesn't have to be government, necessarily, with the solutions. BUT SOMEBODY HAS TO HAVE some solutions. Church, government, the family, pick one but someone's gotta keep society from going crazy.

There are lots of things that could be done. We have warning labels put on cigarettes, so why can't educational pamphlets be packed with gun sales. Education is an answer -- people need to watch for the "red flags" in family or friends or loved ones. People just can't ignore it, if someone is doing specific crazy violent talk, and off on a deep end, then getting into jihad or racism or whatever.

And there needs to be more mental health services -- the South, the red states, are THE WORST as far as any social services goes.

Conservatives, if you don't wanna lose your guns, then come up with other solutions. If you don't want to lose all your coal mines and oil wells, then come up with some environmental solutions too. Etc. etc.

Okay I'll stop ranting on this, I've said everything there is to say.)

[Sixstrings]

One last comment, about the confederate flag, mississippi republican house speaker saying the they should remove it from their state flag:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') top Mississippi lawmaker says the Confederate battle emblem is offensive and needs to be removed from the state flag.

Republican House Speaker Philip Gunn said Monday that remembering our past is important, "but that does not mean we must let it define us."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/mississippi-confederate-flag_n_7641512.html

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'A')nd the conditions that breed this type of idiot will become more and more entrenched.