[Rod_Cloutier]

I'll wade into this yet again. I participate in the Shoomery web form since I started taking Ayahuasca just less than a year ago. Really interesting people posting over there. They also have a 9/11 thread, which includes insights obtained by people who regularly use psychedelic drugs and who have access to higher realms of spiritual knowledge and out of body experiences.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla ... 344/page/1

(More of the same I know- but from a VERY different perspective)

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', ' ')There's nothing new to offer and nobody's changing anyone's minds on that issue. So Keith and company, if you want to just piss into the wind, go right ahead. It won't accomplish anything.

[dissident]

Without trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.

[SeaGypsy]

Who decided 9/11 isn't relevant to modern fascism? Biased moderation much. There is no more relevant topic, nor more telling belief.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'W')ithout trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.

[SeaGypsy]

It's too late for that OL, everyone here who was ever going to look has looked & taken a side. As you might expect, a substantial proportion of Americans particularly have massive cognitive dissonance on 9/11, even in the esteemed & enlightened hallows of peakoil.com. From where I view it this day's most potent factor is the subsequent murder not of a couple of million Iraqis & Afghanis but in the murder of science.

Never in history has anything like 'Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth' existed. Thousands of peers demanding logical answers to legitimate questions about illogical answers provided. The debunker movement is sheer bollocks but it has plenty of adherents.

The murder of science & the murder of MSM investigative journalism, two ongoing wars & more in the offing.

Nothing to do with fascism. Phooey.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'W')ithout trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.

[onlooker]

So true Sea, too tired to try convincing anyone of anything at this point. Cannot help but thinking though how the elites are so dark and nasty, how they have steered us to these predicaments the planet confronts now. Fascists or Elites they are still the same. Oh and I like that Sea , esteemed and enlightened. Esteemed yes, enlightened well some would say you and I are not haha.

[onlooker]

Yep if this was a court case and we had a impartial and competent jury this case would be what do they say "open and shut" , meaning no doubt about the guilt.

[SeaGypsy]

Whereas you are a troll for your unwavering dedication to MSM USA. Knowing 9/11 is not as sold is not tinfoil. I am definitely pro Israel so your association bias does not apply to me.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hereas you are a troll for your unwavering dedication to MSM USA.

[SeaGypsy]

Ennui sees building 7 coming down due to office fires as legit. Calls those who see controlled demolition tinfoilers. Total cognitive dissonance there.

As for Israel, very messy story of course, but on that score I agree with him. The islamists are bat shit crazy. The Israelis are self interested, generally sane. They have Muslim women & gays in the military, function as an effective secular state. The Palestinian authority lobs random bombs at whoever in Israel, to little physical but massive psychological effect. Israel tires & finds the whereabouts of some leaders, warns them, then demolishes their houses. Palestine tries the civilian shield method, fails due to the undeniability of warnings being issued, then rounds up some suspected spies & shoots them dead in public a few days later after a kangaroo court trial.

If ever Palestine gets full state authority it will be an islamist state. Beheadings,stoning, hanging & crucifiction with dismemberment, all righteously backed by the Koran & Hadith's. Screw Palestine, screw islamism, go Israel.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Ennui sees building 7 coming down due to office fires as legit. Calls those who see controlled demolition tinfoilers. Total cognitive dissonance there.

[SeaGypsy]

Bullcrap straw man argument.
Your position is very clear: building 7 fell into its own footprint in seconds due to office fires. Any sane human being can see it came down in a textbook demolition. To you this perfectly rational & sane conclusion is 'trufer CT tinfoil'. Which makes you either an idiot or a slave of MSM.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'A')s for Israel, very messy story of course, but on that score I agree with him. The islamists are bat shit crazy. The Israelis are self interested, generally sane. They have Muslim women & gays in the military, function as an effective secular state. The Palestinian authority lobs random bombs at whoever in Israel, to little physical but massive psychological effect. Israel tires & finds the whereabouts of some leaders, warns them, then demolishes their houses. Palestine tries the civilian shield method, fails due to the undeniability of warnings being issued, then rounds up some suspected spies & shoots them dead in public a few days later after a kangaroo court trial.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'I') know what your position is, though, and you're not going to change mine.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '[')o you have any position that could be changed as a result of facts or logic presented to you in this discussion group. I don't think so. Why are you here?

[SeaGypsy]

Ennui, intellectual coward.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'E')nnui, intellectual coward.

[SeaGypsy]

Maybe you need to watch building 7 being demolished over & over until you can admit at least 1 fact. Or too scary, that rabbit hole? Really weak.