[DesuMaiden]

Just read this post.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') would have to say that Yes college is a waste of time. The College Bubble is coming within then next 5 - 10 years. Many people will tell you that college is worth it, and right now it seems to be due to college grads having a lower unemployment rate. But that is due mainly with a few things. First, there is still a stigma attached to people that do not have college degrees. Second, many Human Resource employees are female, and females tend to put more value in a college education than males. Also, our Politically Correct society is bending over backwards to hire minorities (Black, Female) with college degrees, even though there are more qualified candidates out there. In all honesty, most of these college grads do not learn anything other than being trained to study for tests, do homework, write papers, etc. 1/2 of their time is spent studying subjects that are not related to their major, which then just distracts them from actually studying what they want to go into. 1/2 of students have no idea what to major in because they have no idea of what they like to do because they have not really worked in the real world yet. 80% of what you studied is forgotten because students just crammed for an exam the night before, 1/2 their time is spent on useless subjects, and they have not been able to apply what they are learning to real life work. Most college grads need to be trained when they get their first job because they didn't learn anything in college. Parents and students have been brainwashed to think a college degree has value. It doesn't have much value. . . .which we will see in the near future after the bubble pops. College is a Cash Cow for those overpaid tenured Liberal professors that will tell you to go into this or that or just tell you just get your degree. . . but then when you can't find a job they still get their pay. Why do people think you can learn more sitting in a classroom listening to an overpaid professor talk about a subject that they probably do not actually work in. Most of what you need to do a job is to actually just get out there, get a job, show some initiative, and work hard.

If I could do it over again, I would probably not have went to college, but started working after high school and go into a trade school and open my own business. Then I could have hired some dumb college kid to work for me.

[Strummer]

This is a very US-specific post. Didn't you say in some of your other dozens of threads that you live in the UK?

[DesuMaiden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', 'T')his is a very US-specific post. Didn't you say in some of your other dozens of threads that you live in the UK?

[KaiserJeep]

Desu, I still believe that you are desperately trying to convince yourself of something that just is not true. You definitely DO NEED a college degree for any form of professional career. I have only hired degreed engineers for the last three decades - and the starting salary increases depending upon BS, MS, or PHD. The same holds true for all professional positions in Engineering, Medicine, Science, Finance, and especially Education.

If you are a software Geek, you can make just as much money as a person with a degree - as long as you can write code. If you can't write code, a degree won't save your job.

If you want a Technician (blue collar) job, get an Associate degree in whatever tech field is appropriate, and get an entry level job. If you want to learn a trade, get an apprenticeship. Note that (contrary to popular opinions) Technicians and Apprentices work HARDER than professionals, for longer hours, and with lower pay.

The only way you become a loser is by working at some job that does not advance your career, just to make ends meet.

Note that Peak Oil may have happened, or not - we spend a lot of time talking about the topic here, but you can only be sure by looking backwards at actual production figures. But the peak inflection only means that half the existing supply is gone - and (short of a nuclear war) the remaining oil will last a minimum of four decades, maybe as long as 120 years - but somewhere on the order of 80 years.

In other words, you still will need a job, for decades to come. Don't be thinking you will strap on a backpack and go carve a place out of the wilderness. If you even tried that, those backwoods folks who have lived there for generations will shoot you, and put you in an unmarked hole.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

You are probably right to a certain extent. However, a this point in time, you probably need some kind of degree in order to make a decent living. Many licensed trades now require at least an associate's. You can get into nursing or an allied health field.

My job as a respiratory therapist was once OTJ. Not anymore. The ones grandfathered in who haven't earned their degree are generally given a lot of the scut work.

That day might come one day where it really is just a piece of paper. Now is not that time, however, and you can't predict the exact time. Yes, you could work at Walmart or McDonald's, but why would you want to work at a place where they will openly cheat their employees out of benefits and/or money.

If you do want to go back to the land, why don't you stop posting here and start already? There are plenty of opportunities to do internships and volunteer on organic farms. It doesn't sound like you have any attachments, so why not start now?

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', 'T')he ONLY reason anyone goes to college nowadays is to get a higher paying job. It is all about money.

[Newfie]

Desue,

What is your degree in?

There are a variety of reasons to go to college. When I was your age the best reason to go to college was to not get shot in Vietnam. That's a problem you don't have. Count yourself lucky on that one.

I could argue this in either direction. Far too many variables. It simply may be wrong for you. Or maybe you are looking at it wrong. Don't know, can't tell.

Let me tell you this about myself...
1st I didn't go to college because I didn't know what I wanted to do, and didn't have the money.
Then I went to college to avoid the draft, get drunk, get high, and get laid.
Then I went to college to get ahead in life.
Then I went to college to learns something I was interested in.
I graduated, finally, at 39. Night school warrior.

That moved me from a blue collar job to a white collar job, out of a dead end into a different life.

The guy who replaced me when I moved on in 1983 had that same job when he retired last year.

The guy who replaced me when I move on in 1990 had a mini stroke in his early 40's and suffered sever short term memory loss. At least partially job stress related.

Those were the jobs college allowed me to leave behind.

All that said, the best education, the most practice education,my foundation, was my A school training in the U.S. coast Guard. College allowed me the credentials to use that education.

All that said, I have 4 kids. 2 grads, 2 allergic to college.

[Timo]

Desu, it's pretty clear that something has happened recently that's put you over a threshold of some sort. Life does suck, but only part of the time. In that same vein, college can be a waste, but not of time. Time is relative: you can spend it doing anything you want. College can be a great use of time. The key is not to make college a waste of your money. Perhaps the fastest way to make sure that life sucks is to start your adult life hopelessly in debt. If that's the case, then don't waste your time digging yourself a hole. Use that time to elevate yourself above that hole, or at least use that time to develop the means to get back out once you've graduated. One of the great things about college is there's no expiration date. I was on the 6-year plan, and ended up with a degree that wasn't worth much. That didn't make college a waste of time, though. I had a great time in college! Time is what you make of it. After you've reached a certain point, don't be afraid to switch gears and go in a different direction. Use your bachelor's degree as a stepping stone to something bigger that will get you to where you want to be. No one has ever looked at themselves and thought that they were done with everything that life had to offer. College can be a very good part of life, but that's a personal choice, and everyone is different. The same shoe doesn't fit everyone. Just don't waste time doing something that you'll regret later one. One of these days, you will say to yourself that in hindsight, you should have had more forethought. Use your time to make good friends and long lasting relationships. That is never a waste of time. And it's free!

[ralfy]

Only around 7 pct of people worldwide have college degrees, and many are unable to finish primary or secondary schooling. Finally, many of the needs for sustainability and transition will involve what is gained from higher education.

[KaiserJeep]

A final thought for you Desu.

It does not matter what you get your degree in. The important thing you demonstrate by having a diploma is that you are the type of person who finishes what he starts. THAT is what employers value. You will learn what you need by doing the job.

I am retiring after 37 years practicing Electrical Engineering. 37 years ago, plus a few months, I said to myself "That's a good job offer, I'll take them up on that just until I figure out what I want to be when I grow up."

Well, I never did figure out what I wanted to be. It turns out that that is another topic that just does not matter.

The computers that I designed have transformed the world we live in. Granted I am one of thousands of engineers working at hundreds of companies, all of us incrementing the state of the art in computing. But look around - everybody has a computer in their hand, or carries one around, or has one on a desk. I was one of the people who did that. I did so because my employer demanded more and cheaper and better products to sell, and kept promoting me and giving me raises and providing other encouragement to do so.

The only time I regret was that which I wasted by being indecisive. The message is, don't stop, don't hesitate, and don't waste your time. It does not matter what you do, only that you do something.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', '
')The ONLY reason anyone goes to college nowadays is to get a higher paying job. It is all about money. Capitalism is a scam, and college is supported by capitalism. College is just a business. All they care about is making money. The only reason anyone goes to college anymore is to make more money since you apparently "need" a college degree to get into most higher paying jobs.

[yellowcanoe]

There are two problems I see with a university education. First, too many young people are now choosing to go to university and there simply are not enough jobs that truly require that level of education. The second problem is created by the first problem -- if a higher percentage of high school graduates are going to attend university the only way to avoid having a significant number of them flunk out is to dumb down the program. Even programs like Engineering which are supposed to be difficult have been dumbed down. When I did Engineering, a normal course load was 6 courses which would have required about 30 hours of scheduled lectures, labs and tutorials per week (plus a large amount of time for doing assignments and projects). Nowadays, the normal course load in Engineering at my university is only 5 courses. We may be churning out a larger number of people with degrees but they are not necessarily as well educated as previous generations of university graduates.

[joyfulbozo]

College is not a waste of time if you are taking admission in a reputed school. The envorimnet inside the campus is a different experience of a lifetime.

[DesuMaiden]

I noticed this for many years. There is a higher education bubble in the USA and many other developing nations. Right now, there is over a TRILLION DOLLARS of outstanding student loan debt in the USA. 2/3 of college degree holders owe student loan debt in the USA. The average college graduate owes about $30,000 in student loan debt in the USA. The job prospects for college graduates is not really good. Over 50% of college graduates in the USA are either unemployed or underemployed. Most college graduates end up working in jobs that have absolutely nothing to do with what they studied in college, or end up doing a job that doesn't require a college education.

Don't go into a massive amount of debt for a college education in any country because it is almost always not worth it. Unless you are trying to become a doctor, do NOT burrow $100,000 or more in student loan debt. I've heard of people majoring in liberal arts burrowing that amount for something like sociology. Don't do that because all you will end up doing is killing yourself with a huge amount of debt. Debt that you cannot get rid of by any means.

If you want proof that college is a scam and racket, watch the following videos and read the following articles.

Proof: College is a fraud (Basically a college undergraduate student talks about how college is a waste of money and time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqx0CRJFAXg

Proof College is a Fraud: Worthless Degrees (This video explains what are worthwhile and not worthwhile degrees in college)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbiGp39ML_0

College Conspiracy ( A detailed documentary on how college is not worth it anymore for most people. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but for most people, college is just a scam)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww4m8GUK69E

29 Shocking Facts that Prove College Education is just a scam

http://mrconservative.com/2013/05/17468 ... st-a-scam/

If you want an education, you have absolutely no reason to go to college. You can learn virtually everything they teach you in college using the Internet or books. The only reason anyone goes to college is so that they can earn a degree that qualifies for them for certain jobs i.e. doctors, lawyers, engineers or teachers.

Here's a fun fact. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need a law degree to understand the law. Before the mid 20th century, you could become a lawyer by self-teaching yourself the law through books or through an apprenticeship. You didn't need to go to law school to become a lawyer. The reason why you need a law degree these days to practice law is because the law degree serves as an expensive barrier to entering the legal profession. By requiring an expensive law degree to practice law, this limits the number of people that can practice law. This thereby allows lawyers to maintain their overinflated salaries. This is called credentialism, which is the erroneous belief that you must have a degree to do a certain job.

Schooling and education are totally different things. You can become well-educated without very much formal education. All you need these days is an Internet connection and books to become well-educated and well-informed. You DO NOT need college to become a well-educated and well-informed person.

Of course, if college is free or very inexpensive in the country you live in, then you don't lose much from attending it. But if you live in a country where college tuition is expensive (i.e. Canada or the USA), then you lose a lot from wasting your money on an "education" that is ultimately worthless in terms of getting you employed. Don't go into a large amount of debt for an ultimately worthless "education". I put parentheses around the word education because the quality of education they give you in college is ultimately crap. Most college courses I've attended the professor just reads powerpoint slides that were made from the textbook publisher for the course's textbook. What the professor does is simply read the textbook via the powerpoint version of it to you. If you can read and comprehend the textbook by yourself, you have no reason to waste your money for paying someone to read the textbook to you. Read the textbook yourself to learn the knowledge.

If you have kids that are about to graduate from high school, it is very important to decide what they should do after high school. And don't follow the brainwashed. Don't follow the hype that you NEED a college degree to be successful in life. The propaganda system has been very successful at brainwashing people into thinking that without a college education, you will not be successful in life. Being successful in life has NOTHING to do with a college degree. Only go to college if you plan on entering a profession that requires a college degree i.e. a doctor or engineer. Do not go to college to become well-educated or well-informed. You get that from the Internet and books, and not college.

Ultimately, college is a scam for most people. It is a racket. The evidence for it is overwhelming. You don't really develop critical thinking skills from college or school for that matter. You develop those skills from self-directed education.

[Newfie]

Desire,

Colleges are businesses. Their purpose is to make money and grow. If they prey upon the young innocents, well it is a capitalistic society.

Sorry you got snookered.

Hopefully you will be able to leverage your investment somehow.

What was your degree program and how far did you get?

[SeaGypsy]

It's not a waste if you first make sure of 2 things, 1 do I like doing the job at the end of the course? 2 can I get the job to make the $ I want/ need? If not going to college means sitting veging out on space invaders & starting but never engaging in cut & paste/ YouTube debates, well phuk that.

[KaiserJeep]

I went deeply into debt getting an Engineering degree. It took years to pay it back, but I don't regret it. When I finally went to buy my first house, I saved more than the student debt in interest charges, because I had better credit than did the many, many who had defaulted on student loans.

The degree was certainly worth the money, from a salary viewpoint. I got hired for a good wage and regular raises and promotions. I later paid for two more degrees for the wife and daughter, and those were both good investments as well.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you must have a plan for your life. Fate laughs at whatever plans you make. I never did figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up, and decades later I finally understood that it didn't even matter, it's one of the questions you never need to answer - and if you do, chances are overwhelming that you will be wrong.

I got hired by what was probably the 3000th or so computer company, ranked by size. I was employee # 237. 37 years, four months, and 23 days later, I will retire, never having figured out what I want to be when I grow up. I am now one of 317,500 employees at HP. I never left the company I was at, another company bought them, and then HP bought that company. Now I'm retiring from one of the largest tech giants on the planet. What a long strange trip it has been.

Now Desu, if you are not going to study, get your head out of your computer, and GO GET A JOB.

[SeaGypsy]

I'm at university atm, get up @ 4am drive a truck out bush from the city, 5 hour highway cruise in a modern truck, go to school to study something I've done for 7 years anyway so its a breeze, then sculpture studio building & kids on weekends. I have 3 careers having not finished high school. Would have been much easier with degrees, but I would have had to do 3, that's 9 years, may as well become a doctor, not my ambition.

KJ is right, if you don't work or study towards work, you will rot sitting right where you are. Most of us here think the process is already underway.

[Timo]

Desu, most of what you say can't really be refuted with facts. Everyone has their own opinions about what's important in life. That's how it should be. However. i'd like to add something to one of your statements about college being a fraud. Sadly, there is a growing trend, in the US anyway, of private for-profit colleges getting rich by luring students with federal student subsidies to pay for a worthless education. I don't know how many fo the trillions of debt owned by students are to these for-profit schools, but regardless, those schools are profiting off of PUBLIC money, and they're not producing anything of quality. The students are often in much worse shape coming out than they were going in.

My larger point, though, is not to generalize the statistics you read into narrow conclusions. There is a very important distinction between college and education. Education can be gained anywhere, and yes, even in colleges and universities. Some are better than others, obviously, but they still can be a good investment of money and time. But, some colleges exist to educate, and other colleges exist to profit off of their students. The latter is a trap. I would strongly advocate that no public money be allowed to fund a for-profit, fly-by-night education. There is also a very big difference between public and private, and my previous statement about for-profit schools i'm sure isn't iron-clad. Private doesn't mean for-profit.

I'll wrap this up by reminding everyone that Bernie wants to tax wall street to provide a free college education for everyone. Though i really, really like Bernie, that's the wrong way to go. Tax wall street, yes, but college isn't for everyone. Focus instead on universal education. Available and affordable, yes, but free? No.

[KaiserJeep]

I think it simply depends upon what you study. We need doctors, engineers, mathematicians, and many flavors of scientists. We don't need economists, political science majors, LAS, philosophers, etc. - at least, no more than we already have. Learn some useful stuff, and earn your keep. The rest of it, pay for it yourself.