[yawn]

"there is still about a trillion barrels of recoverable oil left in reserves around the world, but that isn't very much considering each day we consume 90 million barrels of oil"

Okay, I'll check back in 11 days or so and let you know. smh.

I'm glad that you think people like me deserve to die. If you're right, that'll assuage my guilt when I kill your ass taking what you have to sustain myself and my family, and if it's not you...well, I can imagine, right?

Shithead, tree-sucking whackjob.

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I')'ve been thinking, which only occasionally has dangerous consequences, about collapse, and TEOTWAWKI. Collapse had multiple variables and degrees. To most Americans and Western World inhabitants in general, a visit to a 3rd world country, where the same standards for quality of life and government controls that we have in the US don't exist, that would be a real eye-opener. If those same lower or more lax standards suddenly became the norm in our 1st world culture, most people up here would consider that to be the definition of collapse. Yet, life goes on in those countries quite nicely, and people do manage to enjoy life in spite of the unrealized extent of governement controls or commercial or government services. No phone service? No problem. Take a walk down to that person's house and talk to them. No arugala for your salad? Eat romaine, instead. Make do with what you've got. No internet? Do something productive with your time, instead. No car? Take the bus!

My point is that most of the world lives quite well in lesser standards than we're used to, so the very idea of "collapse" is very relative. How much? Is the loss of the internet collapse? Is the loss of gasoline to fuel your car collapse? Is it the cessation of mail delivery? The end of all government, local, state, and Fed? Martial law? I've lived under martial law, and that doesn't come close to fulfilling the definition of collapse. Hell, 30 years ago, the internet didn't even exist! 130 years ago, the automobile didn't exist? Global trade to fill the shelves of the supermarket didn't exist. Commercial air travel didn't exist. Is the loss of any of these luxuries collapse? Is the loss of any two or three luxuries in tandem collapse? Are we looking at a future Mad Max world, or just a simpler, less convaluted way of life? I started a thread asking people to define their own personal expectations of the future. This is a big part of that. Define collapse. How low will we go? How chaotic will things get? I'm not asking for personal enecdotes of prepping for that event. I'm asking for everyone to define that event.

OK. I'm done. Thanks for listening.

[Pops]

LOL, I approved yawn's post just so I could have the pleasure of banning him.

[Pops]

I agree Timo. Really that is the whole premise of the idea that low oil consuming folks can more easily afford 1 or 2 gallons than high consuming folk can afford 1 or 2 more.

I'd guess that for quite a while, global per capita consumption will stay steady rather than fall a la Olduvai for exactly this reason.

Another old brain model bites the dust ...

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', ' ')Yet, life goes on in those countries quite nicely, and people do manage to enjoy life in spite of the unrealized extent of government controls or commercial or government services. No phone service? No problem. Take a walk down to that person's house and talk to them. No arugala for your salad? Eat romaine, instead. Make do with what you've got. No internet? Do something productive with your time, instead. No car? Take the bus!

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'T')o most Americans and Western World inhabitants in general, a visit to a 3rd world country, where the same standards for quality of life and government controls that we have in the US don't exist, that would be a real eye-opener. If those same lower or more lax standards suddenly became the norm in our 1st world culture, most people up here would consider that to be the definition of collapse. Yet, life goes on in those countries quite nicely, and people do manage to enjoy life in spite of the unrealized extent of governement controls or commercial or government services. No phone service? No problem. Take a walk down to that person's house and talk to them. No arugala for your salad? Eat romaine, instead. Make do with what you've got. No internet? Do something productive with your time, instead. No car? Take the bus!
.

[Subjectivist]

As an old codger I can tell you my parents went to a one room schoolhouse from grades 1-8. When they finished Primary School they graduated complete with a Diploma, which was required if you were going to attend High School. All those statements about people in the 1800-1940 period who "only had an eight grade education" ignore the fact that in those days that education was about what you get in Junior College today. Many Primary School graduates learned logic, calculus and Latin as part of their curriculum. Modern Americans are so dumbed down they have no clue how well educated their own ancestors were a hundred years ago.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')
The weather there sounds great. It's near the equator but about 4000' so cool at night and 80's in the day.

[Revi]

I would say that it is a waste of time trying to educate others about peak oil. I have tried it, and it got me more enemies than I can count. They still dislike me for it. I would say it is worse than a waste of time. It's counter productive and not strategic. Best to keep quiet about it. And plan!

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'A')s an old codger I can tell you my parents went to a one room schoolhouse from grades 1-8. When they finished Primary School they graduated complete with a Diploma, which was required if you were going to attend High School. All those statements about people in the 1800-1940 period who "only had an eight grade education" ignore the fact that in those days that education was about what you get in Junior College today. Many Primary School graduates learned logic, calculus and Latin as part of their curriculum. Modern Americans are so dumbed down they have no clue how well educated their own ancestors were a hundred years ago.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') would say that it is a waste of time trying to educate others about peak oil. I have tried it, and it got me more enemies than I can count. They still dislike me for it. I would say it is worse than a waste of time. It's counter productive and not strategic. Best to keep quiet about it. And plan!

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ')Best to keep quiet about it. And plan!

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'P')eak Oil has made me acutely aware of how precious and yet dysfunctional these times are. But I am not planning really for it. Beyond the getting out of debt and living frugally and learning how to garden etc. how can one really plan for punctuated and inherently unstable times?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'P')eak Oil has made me acutely aware of how precious and yet dysfunctional these times are. But I am not planning really for it. Beyond the getting out of debt and living frugally and learning how to garden etc. how can one really plan for punctuated and inherently unstable times?

[Revi]

I agree. I thought that getting ready in a rural place was the way to go, but I have had a bunch of experiences here in Central Maine that tell me that it's not a good place to be if it gets nasty. I think the thing to do is to be fluid and aware of what's going on around you. Plans can change.

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Subjectivist

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mericans are so dumbed down they have no clue how well educated their own ancestors were a hundred years ago.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') I think the thing to do is to be fluid and aware of what's going on around you. Plans can change.

[Timo]

[quote="Scrub Puller"]I am constantly amazed at the lack of ability of "educated" young folks who have moved through the system to grasp basic concepts of engineering, mathematics and objective thinking . . . times tables and rote learning are a proven concept, the building blocks for knowledge that are be imprinted on the human brain . . . first question I ask a young 'un is what are nine nines or whatever . . . just ask it out of the blue for no reason.quote]

I think i can identify at least a partial answer for your conundrum, that being TV. With the advent of television, much more so than radio, the civilized public has been raised on a downward trend of attention span. Radio required visualization to understand and comprehend what the voice on the other side was communicating. The requirement to "think" went away with television. I'm not saying that all TV is bad, but think about the structure of television programming. Every 10 minutes (or less) there is a commercial, prefectly timed to give the viewer a break from the story they're following. Enter Sesame Street. Tens of millions of American children were raised watching this show. This program was the 1970s baby-sitter for nearly every mother in America. It was produced in countless segments, each only 30 seconds to one minute long, programming the viewer to have a short attention span. Enter MTV. Each music video last only 3 to 4 minutes. That's about the duration of an adolescent's attention span. Enter the internet. That's one helluva diversion, extraordinaire! Got homework to do? That can wait until i'm done looking at porn. 11:00 p.m.? Oh well. Too late to do the homework now. Enter the smartphone. Taking a smartphone away from a highschool student, and increasingly away from any adult, would ruin their lives! The distractions provided by electronic devices, all connected to the rest of the world, are essential ingredients to be alive for over a billion people in this world. We've all been culturally conditioned to have a short attention span, and to become dependent on our electronic devices to do the thinking for us. If we have any question, we can look up the answer. No memorization of anything required. Using the computer is almost instinctual for anyone under the age of 25. Kids are born now with the instructions for using Windows 8 already programmed into their brains. For anyone over 40, learning Windows 8 is like learning Cuneiform, except Windows 8 is not a dead language, until they come out with Windows 8.1, and then 8.2, and then 9, and then 10, and then 1 billion. The information required to function in society today does not require a firm grip of calculus, or trigonometry, or chemestry (unless you're preoccupied with getting that girl's attention sitting on the other side of the room). Living in society today does require the ability to use social media so we can all sit and stare at our little smartphones and communicate via facebook without ever verbally talking to anyone else. Being alive in society today requires that you intellectually remove yourself from society so you don't go insane from recognizing how disfunctional our society has become. I have my smartphone. 23,000 people "Like" me on Myface. All is well. The real world is too distracting and depressing. Leave me alone. I just got a text message.

[tom_s2]

Hi GHung,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', 'W')hat you could be ignoring is that it's happening now; the long, slow train wreck some have described. Peak oil/peak other things, as Greer suggests, is playing out in a fractile process that is difficult to see in real time