[jupiters_release]

Five babies sounds like a hoarder.

[Peak_Yeast]

@jupiter: She came from a large family in Kenya (First daughter of PS Bitange Ndemo ) and Kenyan families are generally too large. Even the Kenyan national bank admits on their website that the country could be prosperous if the birthrate was halved - from 4.2 children (from memory).

[onlooker]

try this link Peak yeast
http://feww.wordpress.com/
My situation with my girlfriend is she is disabled physically and also when I met her she was already 40 yrs old so those were our reasons not to have children of course 7 years ago I did not quite have an idea just how bad the situation was on this planet. So in retrospect our decision pleases both of us.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'P')starr, I wish you were right and I was more altruistic, but the main reason I didn't have children is that to me the situation is hopeless and getting worse fast, and I didn't want to bring children to this kind of world. Overpopulation was the cause, but not the reason behind my decision.

[DesuMaiden]

Here's the URL of the book I'm talking about...

It is called The Peak Oil and Die-Off

www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/traducao-DieOff.pdf

It was written by a former peak oil activist by the name of Matt Savinar. The book is about peak oil and the fate of humanity. And the book starts off as bleak, and it ends up as even worse than bleak.

According to this book, in the best case scenario, over 90% of humanity dies from peak oil over the next 50 to 100 years. Meaning 500 million or fewer people will be left after peak oil destroys society. In the worst case scenario, we have a thermonuclear war over the remaining oil resources, which will destroy all of humanity.

The book explains why a population crash of unimaginable magnitude will happen. It is because there are too many damn people on this planet thanks to oil. As oil became ubiquitous during the 20th and 21st century, the population of the world expanded from only 1.6 billion in 1900 to over 7 billion in the early 21st century. The population basically goes on a vertical trajectory of growth because of oil, meaning extremely rapid an unnatural growth. But over the next couple of decades, our oil supplies will decrease.

And since oil is directly proportional to the food we produce without sufficient oil, we can't produce enough food to feed our ever-growing population. So without sufficient oil, our economy will collapse, and there will be massive food shortages, resulting in the deaths of literally billions. Yes, you heard me correctly. I said massive food shortages because there is 10 calories of fossil fuels used to create every calorie of food in the industrial world's diet If you take away the fossil fuels, you take away the food, and by taking away the food, the population goes away. It is that simple.

The population will decrease to a lower level than the level before we had oil because we damaged the carrying capacity of a Earth without fossil fuels. Before fossil fuels, we might have been able to support 1.5 or 2 billion people without fossil fuels. But since we depleted other resources with our massive population growth, the Earth can only support less people without fossil than it would have been able before.

The book says we will go back to stone age. We aren't going back to the Roman Times or Medieval Era, which had iron and other metals. We are literally going back to the stone age, because of all of the easy-to-mine metal ores have already been mined. The easy-to-mine copper, iron and gold have already been mined. And it will require an enormous amount of fossil-fuel based energy to recycle all of the metals we currently use. We will not have that fossil-fuel energy to recycle the left-overs of industrial civilization after industrial civilization collapses. We will be out of metals. Without metals, we are going back to the stone age. Hence, Matt Savinar believes the population will be reduced to 500 million or under.

In the worst case scenario, we have a thermonuclear war, and all of humanity is wiped off. China and Russia are united against the USA and its allies in an all-out thermonuclear World War 3. I just hope the less evil of the two shitty scenarios happens. I hope only a fraction of humanity survives rather than all of humanity dies.

The book also goes in extreme detail debunking all of the claims deniers of peak oil make. The book also goes into extensive detail explaining why alternative energies will not replace fossil fuels.

Overall it is a very enlightening book, even though the conclusions drawn by the book are very bleak. I suggest you should read it if you want an idea of what the future will actually be like. And that concludes my short book review. Cya.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

He is also a professional astrologer these days.

[DesuMaiden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'D')esu, Savinar was a regular here back at the beginning. His posts. He was a major doomer/goldbug/gunut/TEOTWAWKI guy. Be careful you don't fall into his trap and destroy your credibility by constantly predicting doom. He had an excuse for his doomerism; he sold MRI's and other survival gear. Are you a End-Times Entrepreneur?

The world ecology/economy is not a single entity. Nor is the world resource-base evenly distributed. Some societies collapse before others. We in the US have a lot of new timber, arable land, oil, fish and opportunity. In contrast England is soon to be fecked.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jesus_of_suburbia', 'H')e is also a professional astrologer these days.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', ' ')
There is no way industrial civilization will last for much longer after 2030. I believe grocery stores in industrialized countries will start to go empty in the 2020s. You better start preparing ASAP. I'm not fear mongering. It is true. Just look at world oil production. It is going to fall soon. And prices will go through the roof soon.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

[DesuMaiden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'W')ake up Desu. I am telling you to grow up, join the group here, learn from others or you will be drummed out. My point on linking to old Matt Savinar posts is that he jumped the gun, made very doomerish predictions that were premature, too early and made him look stupid. Do you want to look stupid? Learn from Matt's mistakes and quiet down. Do you hear me!

[KaiserJeep]

Desu, it takes a while to fit in with this Forum. I know you can do so if you care to. There are a few things I would caution you against.

There are some PO members who are so emotionally invested in Doom Doom Doom that they react harshly against those who suggest (as I have) that we can survive as a species even after the already broken ecology of this world slips into near-total collapse.

We also have some of the opposite preference who are spiritually invested in various forms of alternative agriculture - or in some cases "lifestyle" would be more accurate - and who sincerely believe that if the rest of us would adopt <insert pet obsession here> we could save ourselves, or the planet, or both. These people are in total denial of the consequences of a population overshoot that began over two centuries ago and now qualifies as one of the quickest and deadliest "mass extinction events" we have evidence of in the fossil record. (The worst one by far is still the Permian mass extinction, when multiple mega-volcanoes erupted on the Pangea super-continent, and ended about 96% of all life on the planet on both the land and in the seas. That part of the world is now Siberia on the continent of Asia.)

There are some pretty big footsteps to fill here - there are a variety of the prophets of Peak Oil doom. One that apparently inspired both you and me is Michael Ruppert. He confidently predicted near-term doom at least six times, and each time when it failed to appear, he slunk away from those he knew and started a new life. Then when he was reduced to living in a small trailer in a fringe community here in California, and his latest prediction of doom failed to appear on schedule, he shot himself.

My message is that you must find a way to care for your mental health. That must necessarily include taking breaks from this place and doing whatever it is that heals you. For me, that includes getting in my Jeep and going away from the works of man, until I see nothing but a primitive path or trail. Then I go sideways until I find a nice spot where I cannot even see the trail. There I stay until the desire to see another person asserts itself, or I run out of food, or cold beer.

For short term relief, I sit down and watch the documentary Cave of Forgotten Dreams, the story of the discovery and analysis of 35,000 to 42,000 year old cave paintings in Chauvet cave in France. (Watch it in 3D if you have the technology, as it deserves to be seen in original format.) Reflect for a moment that those who created these paintings lived in a harsh world covered in glaciers, and were suffering from Climate Change far more serious than we face. They lived in a world where they were preyed upon by lions, cave bears, sabre-toothed cats, etc. They hunted and slew mammoths, bison, rhinos, and other large animals. They were locked in a war with another race of hominids, the Neanderthals.

They survived, and they became us. We prospered, and hard times are again upon us. I believe we will survive, although I think our planet's ecology will reset as it did in the Permian age, and in a few million years, the Earth will again be a nice place - with a new species at the apex of the food chain. We humans will inhabit space habitats - we have the technology now, the will to do so comes when the planet sinks into disaster, and becomes not so nice a place to live.

Until then live your life, always feed your head, have a few descendants, and make sure they are wise enough to leave the planet when the time comes.

Now as a personal favor to me, whenever you feel the urge to start a new thread, would you PLEASE use the search function, read the prior threads on the same topic, and then add to those same threads. Because it is NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY to feed wisdom into your head, it is yours. We should not have to repeat ourselves. You should listen before talking.

[GHung]

Desu reminds me of my first wife when she became 'born again'; new convert trying to convert everyone else, even lifelong Christians (who weren't REAL Christians and all that). Constantly trying to validate their newfound world view. This too shall pass, just as Savinar's supposed doomerist evangelical crusade did. Those who've been walking the walk for a while always get a little grumpy when some newly-hatched doomer shows up,, and can't shut up about it.

[Pops]

Desu has been playing nice, only one new topic today.

[dinopello]

Who was that Texan that likened catastrophic die-off to the weather...

"If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it."

or was that something else?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

I thought it was Bob Knight in regards to rape.

[KaiserJeep]

All you have to do to prevent rape is pack a weapon and give your attacker a 9mm vasectomy. Would that we could prevent the end of cheap oil as easily as that.