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The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby meemoe_uk » Wed 16 May 2012, 05:46:11

Love it how peakers are allowed to derail the thread with offtopic whenever they want, but especially when skeptics have brought the thread to an awkward point that peakers can't argue against.

PO forums have always relied on skeptics to not stoop as low as the religious majority on this forum with their tricks to evade rationality and facts. What if we just followed every peaker evasion?

So, this thread is now a curious and interesting pics dump is it?

peak hunger
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peak rock fall risk
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2012, the year when all our gaian sins catch up with us
Image
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby ebokalsel » Sat 19 May 2012, 11:38:15

hmm, quite difficult to understand, but in the end, i must vote "against" to these against arguments..

:-D
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby Keith_McClary » Mon 02 Feb 2015, 20:52:58

Yet another debunking article mostly borrowed from other debunking articles.

Why the Crash in Oil Prices Should Bury “Peak Oil” Once and for All
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ritics contend that given ever-increasing thirst for hydrocarbons historically, any assumption about future usage based on current supply is dicey. That’s true, but “proven reserves” of oil and natural gas, which is the most conservative category, keep rising. One figure that has remained consistent over decades is the “reserve-to-production” ratio. In 1995 the world had an estimated 51 years of oil supply based on consumption that year. After burning through half-a-trillion barrels of oil since then, the global reserve-to-production ratio in 2013 was up to 53.3 years.
Does not understand that the 2013 number is $100+ oil. There is much less $45 oil.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for “easy oil,” that’s relative. In 1947 when the first commercial oil well was built out of the sight of land in the Gulf of Mexico it was an engineering marvel and in all of 18 feet of water. Today, Brazil has committed $82 billion to develop a “pre-salt basin” of oil under 6,900 feet of water and additional 17,000 feet of seabed. Japan is in uncharted waters with a pilot project to exploit methane hydrates, a form of frozen hydrocarbon on ocean floors that may be twenty-five times the size of all potential natural gas reserves. While there are uncertainties about these projects, especially methane hydrates, they show huge sums of investment are readily available to an energy industry that can rapidly innovate to develop profitable resources.
At $45 ?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hile peak oilers snipe that Middle East producers overstate their supply, the opposite is the case. Officially, Saudi Arabia has 267 billion barrels of oil, but in twenty years, Saudi Aramco estimates it will have 630 billion barrels of recoverable reserves. That’s on top of current production rates of 4 billion barrels annually. The same is true for the United States, Canada, Venezuela, Iran, and Iraq. They can potentially produce far more oil than what’s listed in their reserves.
His cited source includes "probable and possible contingent resources".

Someone should write "This is a Peak Oil debunking article" along the lines of
This is a news website article about a scientific paper
and
How Not to Write an Essay on Oil, With Guidance from the New York Times
(by the Archdruid's kid sister)
Facebook knows you're a dog.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby Dybbuk » Mon 02 Feb 2015, 21:34:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'Y')et another debunking article mostly borrowed from other debunking articles.

Why the Crash in Oil Prices Should Bury “Peak Oil” Once and for All


It's the "Immortal Keith Richards" argument yet again:

"People have been saying for 40 years that Keith Richards is going to die any day now because of all the drugs he takes. But look, he's still alive! All those pessimists are kooks! Keith Richards is obviously immortal!"
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby ROCKMAN » Tue 03 Feb 2015, 09:46:20

pstarr - Patience amigo. In about another 6 months the PO deniers will probably be getting their asses handed to them and we won't be hearing much out of them.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby DesuMaiden » Thu 05 Feb 2015, 23:25:06

There is nothing that debunks peak oil. Peak oil is real, and we will have to deal with it.
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby Quinny » Fri 06 Feb 2015, 05:03:53

Best post so far Desu!
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby DesuMaiden » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 15:17:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'B')est post so far Desu!

Denying peak oil and its consequences is like denying that the Earth is round. The evidence for peak oil and its consequences are absolutely overwhelming.
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby DesuMaiden » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 00:40:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'B')est post so far Desu!

Denying peak oil and its consequences is like denying that the Earth is round. The evidence for peak oil and its consequences are absolutely overwhelming.
It is just a matter of timing/degree, hence this endless debate

The timing is NOW. And the degree will be catastrophic as the following book says. It was written by Matt Savinar.

www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/traducao-DieOff.pdf
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby SeaGypsy » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 03:49:16

Desu, you are addressing an audience which has been debating books & authors of the doom genre for about as long as there has been one. Believe it or not, timing & consequences are the so far eternal questions. Indeed, the questions which drive all intelligent debate on the topic. Ranting at such an audience that doom is now & catastrophic, when for most of us there isn't any evidence of that in the real world at our doorstep, places the ranter in the category of the eternal 'end is nigh' sandwich board carrier. The response, almost equilateral, 'have a bath & get a job'.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:28:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', '
')The timing is NOW. And the degree will be catastrophic as the following book says. It was written by Matt Savinar.

http://www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/tr ... DieOff.pdf

The religious intensity and lack of intelligent debate/reasonable flexibility in your argument (about the timing) is not convincing at all. Just as the Pope or any other major religious figure is not convincing at all, given that they continue to offer NO evidence of the magical sky people they insist are in charge of things, including our destiny, souls, etc.

Is there a finite amount of oil in planet earth, which implies peak oil is real (some day)? Absolutely.

Is the ongoing ranting of doomers and "peak oil is NOW" preachers any more credible than it has been since, say, the late 70's (when OPEC equaled doom for the west)? Given all the technology being developed and all the supply continuing to come online, there sure seems to be a lot of evidence stacked against that position.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby DesuMaiden » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 16:01:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')esu, you are addressing an audience which has been debating books & authors of the doom genre for about as long as there has been one. Believe it or not, timing & consequences are the so far eternal questions. Indeed, the questions which drive all intelligent debate on the topic. Ranting at such an audience that doom is now & catastrophic, when for most of us there isn't any evidence of that in the real world at our doorstep, places the ranter in the category of the eternal 'end is nigh' sandwich board carrier. The response, almost equilateral, 'have a bath & get a job'.

By 2020, I predict the world economy will collapse as a result of peak oil. All of the data says this.
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 16:12:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', '
')The timing is NOW. And the degree will be catastrophic as the following book says. It was written by Matt Savinar.

http://www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/tr ... DieOff.pdf

The religious intensity and lack of intelligent debate/reasonable flexibility in your argument (about the timing) is not convincing at all. Just as the Pope or any other major religious figure is not convincing at all, given that they continue to offer NO evidence of the magical sky people they insist are in charge of things, including our destiny, souls, etc.

Is there a finite amount of oil in planet earth, which implies peak oil is real (some day)? Absolutely.
Okay so re-join the discussion and stop lecturing. Do you have a better guess as to when peak will arrive. Got a specific time? Next year? Next century?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'I')s the ongoing ranting of doomers and "peak oil is NOW" preachers any more credible than it has been since, say, the late 70's (when OPEC equaled doom for the west)? Given all the technology being developed and all the supply continuing to come online, there sure seems to be a lot of evidence stacked against that position.
It seems you have created an imaginary foe, a mythical "doomer" Is that me? Is it you in the past? Were you a doomer, outcast? You didn't by chance mis-judge the timing of peak, and then went to buy up a store of gold and guns? You willing to sell the stuff? I might be interested?

I don't pretend to know. Unlike your ilk who chants that "Peak Oil is NOW" or predicts economic collapse by 2020 due to peak oil, I admit that I don't know when it is.

OTOH, I admit that scientific advances, to some extent, do mitigate against a timeline in our face. Fleet mileage increases due to technology is an obvious example -- just look at what Obama's CAFE standards for the US are doing over time, all by themselves. (One of the few really good things Obama has done as president, IMO).

And you're partially right about me. I have bought some gold, silver, and natural resource funds over time as part of my portfolio -- as a hedge against inflation and possible shortage of such resources. This in no way means I had a clue as to the timing. (You can buy fire insurance for your house without expecting your house to burn down real soon).

Any doomer on this site who pretends there are no doomers who regularly predict economic doom "real soon now" is delusional. No, I was never a doomer. I have consistently been a moderate. Overall, given the data from the whole planet, I have been consistently more right than the cornies or the doomers, IMO. I will be willing to change IF enough data presents itself to convince me I should -- and no, with (for example) oil prices plunging and US economic growth perking up in response, I don't see the data to suggest I'm immenently wrong.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The 10 Arguments Against Peak Oil

Postby SeaGypsy » Tue 10 Feb 2015, 19:02:26

The rest of the world is fecked? I guess you include Australia & NZ in that assessment? If so, why? We don't have land borders to worry about, we both produce way more food than we eat.
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