Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Drill in ANWR?

Poll ended at Mon 13 Sep 2004, 18:58:32

Yes, we now have the technology to do it cleanly
4
No votes
Yes, we need the oil, and nobody goes there anyway
3
No votes
Yes, it will rape the land but we need the oil
4
No votes
No, if ANWR opens up, all the national parks are at risk
1
No votes
No, this is one of the last great wildernesses
9
No votes
No, bring on peak oil
8
No votes
 
Total votes : 29

Unread postby nero » Tue 17 Aug 2004, 18:33:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ounds like you don't believe Bush's promise for "clean" extraction (whatever that means).

Actually I do. If we really wanted to we could go into ANWR and be really supper dupper clean. But I don't trust the IOCs or the government to actually implement the expensive technology required to do that. They wouldn't be able to make a profit if they did.
This would be my way to implement a clean solution for ANWR. Require that the companies have to lease a 500M buffer zone around each surface structure or road for 20Million dollars an acre, set aside in a trust fund for the cleanup of the land after the oil is exploited. Include a stipulation that the company recieves all of the lease money back (with interest) once they return all of the land to a pristine condition.
User avatar
nero
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat 22 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Unread postby JayHMorrison » Tue 17 Aug 2004, 19:47:53

Whatever is in ANWR (east of Prudhoe Bay), you can likely double. Remember, the National Petroleum Reserve (NPRA) (west of Prudhoe Bay) is also there. NPRA is estimated to have about the same amount as ANWR. ANWR is 5 to 16 billion in technically recoverable reserves. NPRA is 6 to 13 billion.
The only reason you hear about ANWR so much is because it is closer to the current pipeline infrastructure.
The limitation of Alaska oil is the pipeline. No matter how much oil is there, that pipeline can only pump 2.2 million bpd. Getting an expanded pipeline approved and built would take forever.
If you take the mean estimate for both, that would keep the pipeline full for about 25 years.
User avatar
JayHMorrison
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu 17 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Unknown

Unread postby JayHMorrison » Tue 17 Aug 2004, 19:49:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nero', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ounds like you don't believe Bush's promise for "clean" extraction (whatever that means).

Actually I do. If we really wanted to we could go into ANWR and be really supper dupper clean. But I don't trust the IOCs or the government to actually implement the expensive technology required to do that. They wouldn't be able to make a profit if they did.

At $45 per barrel, they can make a profit just about anywhere on the planet with whatever restrictions you can dream up. Exxon just had the highest profits of any company in any quarter in history.
User avatar
JayHMorrison
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu 17 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Unknown

THE ANWR (Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge) Thread (merged)

Unread postby nero » Tue 17 Aug 2004, 20:12:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nero', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ounds like you don't believe Bush's promise for "clean" extraction (whatever that means).

Actually I do. If we really wanted to we could go into ANWR and be really supper dupper clean. But I don't trust the IOCs or the government to actually implement the expensive technology required to do that. They wouldn't be able to make a profit if they did.

At $45 per barrel, they can make a profit just about anywhere on the planet with whatever restrictions you can dream up. Exxon just had the highest profits of any company in any quarter in history.

Hey I just dreamed up restrictions requiring a minimum of 3.8 billion dollars per well head site. If $45 dollar a barrel oil can handle that lets go for it. :)
User avatar
nero
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat 22 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Top

Unread postby pip » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 12:02:52

What exactly is there terrible environment impact of oil production anyway? I see probably 100 oil wells on my way to work everyday. The corn grows just as tall 15 feet from an oil well as it does 300 feet away.
A drilling rig and associated dirt work takes up maybe 3/4 of an acre. After about six months you can't tell the rig had even been there. It's my opinion the evironmental concerns we hear are just a political move to scare people who know very little about the production of oil. Is there something about Alaskan e&p that is different because of the climate?
User avatar
pip
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed 21 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Republic of Texas

Unread postby PhilBiker » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 12:09:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Is there something about Alaskan e&p that is different because of the climate?
I believe there is. I think the disturbance to permafrosted ground is very different than the disturbance in someplace like California, Texas, or Saudi Arabia. Doesn't matter, we need every single drop of oil we can get.
PhilBiker
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1246
Joined: Wed 30 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby Leanan » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 12:12:02

It's not so much oil production as just the human presence. Environmentalists would protest if someone wanted to put a bank of wind turbines in ANWR, too. You'll need to bring in heavy-duty equipment, which means trees will be cut down and roads and airstrips will be built. Amenities for the people who work there will have to be constructed: housing, shopping, entertainment, etc. Once the infrastructure is there, people will follow. At least, that's what's happened before, and environmentalists believe it will happen again. Once the roads are built, tourists, hotels, snowmobiles, etc. will follow.
User avatar
Leanan
News Editor
News Editor
 
Posts: 4582
Joined: Thu 20 May 2004, 03:00:00

Unread postby Canuck » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 13:54:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pip', 'W')hat exactly is there terrible environment impact of oil production anyway? I see probably 100 oil wells on my way to work everyday. The corn grows just as tall 15 feet from an oil well as it does 300 feet away.

The CBC three part special "Oil: The World over a Barrel" devoted one part to this issue: link
User avatar
Canuck
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed 07 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby pip » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 17:39:23

Wow, checked out the link above. The entire area developed in the Prudhoe Bay covers an area of only like 20x50 miles. This is Alaska we're talking about! I'm think I'm less impressed with the evironmental problems than I was before.
User avatar
pip
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed 21 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Republic of Texas

THE ANWR (Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Whitecrab » Thu 19 Aug 2004, 22:20:51

According to that documentary:
-Most of Alaska's already being tapped. The environmentalists are saying, "can't we have just this one untapped area for the wilderness?"
-Although ANWR drilling would "only cover a small area," it would infact take lots of small drilling sites all over the place. And if each site needs moving materials and equipment and people to build...
-The Alaska pipeline's maintenance has been slipping to save money. If it ever goes, it's a man-sized hose spitting oil for hours upon hours until they fix it

That said, I'd say tap it, but only when we're well into the peak. All the profits oil and profits go to the government to invest in the best technology we've got.
"Our forces are now closer to the center of Baghdad than most American commuters are to their downtown office."
--Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, April 2003
Whitecrab
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed 26 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ontario, Canada

ANWR Oil and Free AOL CD's

Unread postby stayathomedad » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 20:52:24

I was just remembering a page on the web, where some wise guy calculated that all the claimed and believed amount of oil in ANWR is just enough so that AOL can send out those stupid "Try AOL for 1000 Minutes for Free" CD's for 10 (ten) more years. :twisted: ????[smilie=5censored.gif] ??????Does anyone know where that page is, I cannot find it anymore, even through the search engines. :oops:

If you do not know, let me rephrase, how much oil does it take to make one CD? 8O :twisted: [smilie=5huh.gif] [smilie=5hot.gif]
User avatar
stayathomedad
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun 18 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: wilmington, nc

Unread postby backstop » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 21:32:03

Just to clarify the issue, can anyone tell me how many days global oil supply is proven in the ANWR ?

Backstop
backstop
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue 24 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Varies

Unread postby nero » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 23:46:08

there is no proven oil in ANWR. The emphasis on proven. There is believed to be a possibility of another Prudoe bay's worth of oil in there. Thats about 10 billion barrels of oil. Thats four month worth of world oil consumption or the possibility to delay peak oil by a couple of months.
User avatar
nero
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat 22 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Unread postby backstop » Mon 13 Sep 2004, 00:06:01

Thanks Nero. Its not my patch, but if I were an Alaskan I think I'd keep it as it is with a view to a limited but sustainable supply of very fine meat, hides, furs etc.

Backstop
backstop
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue 24 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Varies

Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 13 Sep 2004, 09:43:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hats four month worth of world oil consumption or the possibility to delay peak oil by a couple of months.
That's an invalid way to look at it IMO. There are many areas all over the world that are significantly smaller that we are extracting.
PhilBiker
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1246
Joined: Wed 30 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Top

THE ANWR (Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge) Thread (merged)

Unread postby nero » Mon 13 Sep 2004, 12:37:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's an invalid way to look at it IMO. There are many areas all over the world that are significantly smaller that we are extracting.

I agree but that was the way the info was asked for.
If we as a society were able to look at ANWR and say simply "Well that place is for the caribou not for us" I think we would be a more advanced and civilized society able to handle peak oil no problem.
User avatar
nero
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat 22 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Top

THE ANWR (Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Whitecrab » Mon 13 Sep 2004, 22:01:08

This source is from May 2001: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.oilanalytics.org/policy/policy_bush.html]link[/url][/url]
Myth #1: Oil from ANWR will reduce our vulnerability to OPEC decisions.
The Administration correctly notes that Area 1002 of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska lies above the most promising oil prospect in the nation (Figure P-3). But how much oil is there? To answer this question we must distinguish between the amount of oil physically in place from that which can be extracted under existing technological and economic conditions (Figure P-4). The U.S. Geological Survey's (1998) estimate of the amount of oil-in-place in the 1002 area is 20.7 billion barrels. The amount recoverable with existing technology is 7.7 billion barrels. The economically recoverable amount--that recoverable at $20.00 per barrel--is estimated to be about 3 billion barrels. The technically recoverable oil is the equivalent of 390 days of supply at our current rates of use; the economically recoverable oil is just 152 days of supply.

To what extent can ANWR reduce our reliance on oil imports and diminish OPEC's ability to manipulate oil prices? The Energy Information Administration (EIA) projects world oil production in 2020 to be 112 million billion barrels per day (EIA, 2000). If we decide to develop ANWR today, the EIA projects that by 2020 it could supply 1.4 million barrels per day (Figure P-5). This amounts to about 1 percent of global oil supply. Dust in the winds of the global oil market, and ultimately, a trifling influence on the price of gasoline and home heating oil. This flow of oil would be about 5 and 8 percent, respectively, of the 2020 levels of U.S. oil consumption and oil imports forecast by the EIA.


Now, we know that EIA is crazy and supply will probably be a fair bit less then that. However, ANWR will still be small.
"Our forces are now closer to the center of Baghdad than most American commuters are to their downtown office."
--Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, April 2003
Whitecrab
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed 26 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ontario, Canada
Top

Unread postby stayathomedad » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 16:34:23

funny how no one answered my question
User avatar
stayathomedad
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun 18 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: wilmington, nc

Unread postby Whitecrab » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 22:49:38

That's a shame. It would be quite a political zinger, if we could confirm it was true.
"Our forces are now closer to the center of Baghdad than most American commuters are to their downtown office."
--Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, April 2003
Whitecrab
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed 26 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ontario, Canada

T.Boone Pickens... ANWR, Russia, etc.

Unread postby Ayoob » Thu 11 Nov 2004, 00:57:49

Video feeds from Forbes.com: video
Yipes
User avatar
Ayoob
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1520
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2004, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron