[Ibon]

Modern civilization has failed to self regulate and to mitigate the many systemic problems that have resulted in human overshoot. We have explored this deeply here at po.com.

There is pretty broad consensus that we have already entered the chapter where the consequences will impose constraints that will force civilization to make choices. There is a lot of debate whether these choices will be enlightened or primitive. There are a lot of humans out there and a lot of boundaries; cultural, national, ethnic, religious, continental, bio-regional, wealth disparity. This means that our reaction to consequences is most likely going to be a mixed bag of forces that will select for collective altruism in pulling together as well as primitive resource wars splitting groups.

This is the broad picture. We are all individual pawns caught up in these complex forces. As individuals we have no choice but to accept and adapt to these consequences. Our fate as individuals is the existential reality that our death will occur long before there is any final cultural resolution to the forces of human overshoot. We are links in a long chain..... puny little tiny links in an immensely long chain.

The cultural inertia that has brought us to these systemic imbalances has a very resilient momentum. Let's face it, we are collectively committed to take this to the end game, there is no unwinding of 7.5 billion humans almost now totally homogenized into a single economic global system of consumption, growth and capitalism.

Knowledge of our predicament initially causes great anxiety because you recognize these forces and the intractable cultural inertia of modern civilization continuing to aggravate and draw down resource sinks. However, if you explore this deeply there is no other conclusion that one can draw except that the suite of feedbacks that will emerge in this century and beyond will represent the forces that will select and move culture forward.

If this be clearly understood why should we be anxious?

As puny tiny links in a long chain, what purpose does anxiety serve?

Finally, if your personal wealth, assets or quality of life experience a contraction, if your material dreams are abandoned, if society fails to deliver what you initially felt your entitled to, there is little reason to generate much anxiety when most of your fellow human beings are sharing the same experiences.

I can already see the emerging millennial generation re calibrating their expectations.

Why sweat it? Anxiety in times of overshoot is stupid and a waste of time.

[dinopello]

Anxiety is the passive form of a worthless and stupid thing.

Panic is the active form of a worthless and stupid thing.

Both will kill you prematurely.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'F')inally, if your personal wealth, assets or quality of life experience a contraction, if your material dreams are abandoned, if society fails to deliver what you initially felt your entitled to, there is little reason to generate much anxiety when most of your fellow human beings are sharing the same experiences.

I can already see the emerging millennial generation re calibrating their expectations.

Why sweat it? Anxiety in times of overshoot is stupid and a waste of time.

[Pops]

Unfortunately anxiety doesn't have an easy to find on/off switch.

Of all the possible psy-maladies one might have, I'd say anxiety would be the category I fit into best. Obviously I can obsess over future events, for a hint look at my post count, LOL. When I was younger and in the "corporate" world I had a terrible time, obsessing over meetings, presentations, etc. I'm fairly certain it made me "better" and more "successful" as a worker than if I were a kicked back, type B. It forced me out into the clearing to take on the big monkeys but man, it was tough. Probably the worst effect was I drank way too much for way too long, that was my off switch.

In small doses, worry, concern, and yes, planning, can be a good thing.

But too much worry without action, or endless scenario building without resolution are surefire ways to make oneself completely miserable. Anxiety about a specific event or just life in general can lead to many wasted mind-hours and result in building up a big front to protect oneself from what one perceives is a danger - real or imagined. This is what sucks about anxiety in my experience, when one builds up big defenses they may be protected (if there happens to actually be a danger) but blocking the danger blocks the pleasure and eliminates spontaneity as well. When I tell folks that I'm rather insecure and shy, they always laugh because all they see is the front.

I am less anxious now. I'm not sure if it is simply age, less family responsibility, the life situation I have built. No alcohol is big I'm sure, nothing produces "free-floating anxiety" like a hangover, LOL. Maybe it has to do with developing type 1 diabetes and getting pretty sick, perspective.


"Don't worry, be happy" has a nice beat and you can dance to it but like a lot of things around here, I find that it is more hard wired than not.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') am less anxious now. I'm not sure if it is simply age, less family responsibility, the life situation I have built. No alcohol is big I'm sure, nothing produces "free-floating anxiety" like a hangover, LOL. Maybe it has to do with developing type 1 diabetes and getting pretty sick, perspective.

[Pops]

" and now I am seven,”

LOL

[Outcast_Searcher]

Or, if used properly, anxiety could be a positive thing.

Obviously, as others have said, if one let's it run rampant and it becomes panic, or if one lets it paralyze them or depress them, then anxiety is a very bad thing.

On the other hand, if one channels anxiety as the awareness that things can go wrong into positive attributes like, say, prudence or planning, and uses it to live their life in a far more organized state than the typical person -- then it can become a good thing.

Prudence and planning can be great mitigators (in all but the worst case scenarios) against the kinds of things many people on this site worry about. Running out of resources is the most obvious example. Things like active saving and investment for retirement planning, like getting a good education to gain access to a good career, or simply taking care of oneself by eating well and exercising and following medical advice from their doctor(s), can have a profound long term effect on one's well being. And what is given up, like short term access to fancier cars, McMansions, or giant loads of consumer cr*p are almost completely meaningless, IMO, compared to long term security and a good shot at reasonable well being as we age.

In my mind, this state of mind is a defining difference between a large segment of the middle class of, say, the Greatest Generation, and the generations from the Baby Boomers, on.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '&')quot; and now I am seven,”

LOL

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'H')owever, if you explore this deeply there is no other conclusion that one can draw except that the suite of feedbacks that will emerge in this century and beyond will represent the forces that will select and move culture forward.

[Newfie]

My hero...

[Newfie]

Funny, over on cruisers forum, they just now have a thread labeled "Greatest Fear".

I'm a nervous nelly, up to a point, then .... Off I go!

Can't help it, just the way I'm wired.

Figure I gotta love me just the way I am.

[PrestonSturges]

Anxiety often means there is a decision you are putting off. If you must get more information, set a deadling for getting the information and mark the calendar. You don't worry obsessive about your taxes at midyear.

[Sixstrings]

"Anxiety" is an evolved necessity, for survival.

"Fear" keeps you safe, and out of "Darwin Award" idiotic situations.




"Anxiety" is actually "worry" -- worrying about a future problem. The capability to do THAT is helpful, to survival.

Worry enough to be prepared, then move on.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'H')owever, if you explore this deeply there is no other conclusion that one can draw except that the suite of feedbacks that will emerge in this century and beyond will represent the forces that will select and move culture forward.

[Ibon]

I suggest reading this article

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/likely-ca ... -you-think

It is about addiction and might not initially seem relevant to this thread but please read through it and notice the link between addiction and feeling isolated and cutoff from your community.

I think this feeling of isolation is the single most important source of a feeling of anxiety. What Loki was getting at.

[Pops]

On the addiction part:
Chemicals are a great way to postpone anxiety, unfortunately when someone says, for example, "I'm stressed, I need a smoke" while they may in fact be in a stressful situation it is the nicotine withdrawal that is causing the majority of the discomfort. I know this from 30 years of experimentation on the subject.

On the Big Group Hug part:
I used to be very anxious around people, I was introverted by nature but as I said above I put up a good front. As I also said, I'm not nearly as shy and anxious as when I was younger. Point is I am no more needful of a community than I ever was, community was part of what made me nervous.
The little gold rush town we're in now has a laid back vibe, but not hipster-crunchy like Portland or Marin, call it retired, grey pony-tailed, recovering folky with a tinge of cowboy. The region is mostly rural, maybe a little red politically but pretty balanced, at least the library doesn't feature a dedicated Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck shelf like my old AO, LOL - IOW, it is the perfect fit for my personality, better even that the Ozarks, which are very red. Our neighbors are mellow and super friendly, they seem genuinely happy that we bought the old place, partly because it had been empty for years but more so just because they are truly friendly and it is really a neighbor hood.

Still, though I find just about as pleasant as anywhere I've lived, it is less so than a cabin in the woods with no one within earshot.

Really, a message board is the perfect community for a chat-room-rat like me; I can talk all I want, I can listen as little as I want and flat out ignore who I want, I can up and walk away in the middle of a conversation when I'm bored and once in a great while I get a stroke. But that's just me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen you are not feeling held by your culture and you feel isolated and alone with your worry about security then this is a real source of being anxious. This feeling of helplessness as an individual and cutoff from the larger culture is really an artifact of our affluent, individualistic culture experiencing the first pangs of anxiety about losing autonomy.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')
The "herd" has a few advantages for the individual:
1, it has more eyes and ears than an individual - unless it is a herd of ostriches
2, it provides camouflage "lost in the herd"
3, it provides a diversion: "I don't have to outrun the bear ..."

[Ibon]

I am drifting a little here but the main theme of anxiety is still in the back ground. Here is an excerpt from a poster who commented over on JMG latest essay. Here we have a millennial in his late 20's, the age when you want to start putting your experiential education toward some concrete goal. And he has no money to realize this dream.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m 29 years old, and have been doing intensive organic vegetable farming and permaculture work for several years now. My dream has been to start a permaculture operation growing perennial medicinal and edible plants.

Unfortunately, I was bamboozled like many people of my generation into taking out a significant chunk of student loan debt many years ago to pay for an education that hasn't served my longterm interests.

I have learned a lot from my work on various farms and permaculture operations, but have obviously made very little money doing so. My skillset has grown significantly, but my debt has grown right along with it.

At this point it feels an impossibility that I should ever obtain land, even a modest parcel, let alone finance the beginning of an operation like the one I've envisioned all these years.

I've moved from rental home to rental home, trying to make ends meet while pursuing this self-directed education, but now feel completely stuck. And if what you are saying is true, then it is highly unlikely I will ever be unstuck.

Meanwhile, many of my peers in the young organic farming movement are in a similar situation: lots of skill and knowledge, lots of passion and commitment, but lots of debt and zero access to land or other resources as well. Our elders in the farming community tell us to work off our debts and build our credit with the intention of taking out loans for land someday. But we all know that with things the way they are that this is a futile road leading nowhere. That may have been an option for their generation, but it isn't an option for ours. Sometimes we joke among ourselves that we are likely to end up an entire generation of serfs. Now that the tremors of our time are growing in severity, the laughter is wearing thin.

[Pops]

I guess in a way this gets back to ease of travel.
Seems that if we can do something we will, must be instinctual. So since we can migrate (and probably it is instinct as well, meant to stir the gene pool eh?) we do migrate. So kids move away, couples split, work becomes remote, etc. Technology (FFs) has accelerated the process and it could be that the anxiety you are talking about is a reflection of the neighbors looking different than we do.

Why I care what the neighbors look like or their politics is is a mystery to me because I try to avoid talking about politics or religion in the real world, LOL But The Big Sort that argues against our becoming more and more isolated from community and in fact, trending toward more and more ideologically cloistered regions:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merica may be more diverse than ever coast to coast, but the places where we live are becoming increasingly crowded with people who live, think, and vote like we do. This social transformation didn't happen by accident. We've built a country where we can all choose the neighborhood and church and news show — most compatible with our lifestyle and beliefs. And we are living with the consequences of this way-of-life segregation. Our country has become so polarized, so ideologically inbred, that people don't know and can't understand those who live just a few miles away. The reason for this situation, and the dire implications for our country, is the subject of this ground-breaking work.

[Ibon]

We take on volunteers here at Mount Totumas who come and go and we have paying guests who come and go. This is not a commune arrangement of course but we really enjoy the social interaction. of course guests and volunteers leave after awhile and we retreat back into solitude. The solitude recharges your social battery so you are ready and enthusiastic to share your space once again with others. That is still the main concern with any kind of community. The 24/7 year round presence of the same people without a break. It would be important to maintain autonomy.

By the way, we have the very first volunteer here who came from PO.COM. Timo is visiting us and learning about processing coffee. Nice to finally physically meet someone from here. Great guy, I just had to promise my wife we would hold resource depletion conversations down to less than 30 minutes per day