[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'F')F are not going to vanish overnight but their use will continue to decline and be replaced gradually by substitutes. I'm beginning the like the concept of zero waste and re-use rather than recycling in a circular economy. As the service economy becomes more prominent, natural resource extraction will also decline. I've given you references on decoupling of energy from global economy in the renewable energy and economic growth thread. Where are yours? There will be some credit initially but this can be repaid as the global economy grows this century.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'L')et's stick to the topic of the thread. This article supports the case:

Sell Canada! Investors bet against loonie, bank stocks as oil collapses

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sell orders are piling up on Canada. From Bank of America Merrill Lynch and Fidelity Investments to exchange-traded funds, investors are betting against the country’s currency, equities and even its once-vaunted bank stocks as oil collapses.

Traders yanked US$874 million from all U.S.-based exchange-traded funds with a Canada focus from Oct. 1 through Tuesday. That’s a 22% drop amid the plunge in oil, the country’s biggest export, data compiled by Bloomberg show. The retreat from Canada puts it second in dollar terms to the U.K. for country-focused funds.

Bank of America is telling investors to take bearish bets against Canadian bank stocks in favour of U.S. regional lenders and the Canadian dollar’s 2.7% slump this month to about 84 U.S. cents has already blasted past the average year-end target of a Bloomberg analysts’ survey. The Standard & Poor’s/TSX Composite Index, Canada’s benchmark equity gauge, has dropped 8.2% in the past six months, compared with a 1.1% gain for the U.S.’s S&P 500.

“I expect continued fiscal weakness and slower growth,” Jonathan Lemco, senior sovereign debt analyst at Vanguard Group Inc., the world’s biggest mutual-fund company, said by telephone Jan. 13 from Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. “Canada is a big commodity producer, oil is a big part of that, China and other countries are buying a little less. It will take a bit of a hit.”

[clif]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')the situation is not hopeless but time is running out as many have repeatedly warned.

[ROCKMAN]

ralfy - Once again folks who can't deal with reality retreat to some fantasy land. LOL. Just like the alcoholic that wakes up with a bad hangover:" Never gain!" Right...unil the next time when thy can't resist taking another sip of that 120 proof Kool-Aid. So investors dump oil stocks because of the price collapse. And that because: A) consumers will burn less ff because it has become much cheaper or B) because oil patch companies will be making less profit. Hmm...tough call. LOL.

Anyone check on how the market is treating the alt energy pubcos? Let's remember how that dynamic has worked in the past: ff prices go up + ff company values increase + expensive alt energy systems become more competitive with ff. So the logic behind this thread: ff prices collapse + ff company values decrease + expensive alt energy systems become EVEN MORE COMPETIIVE with ff. LOL.

The good news was that as costs decreased the alts were starting to catch up with ff. With the new ff pricing it's effectively the same as the alts suddenly loosing those gains IMHO. Next Dec let's look back and see how many e-cars are sold in 2005.

[clif]

[quote]Next Dec let's look back and see how many e-cars are sold in 2005.
[quote]

209,711 (google is your friend) so is proof reading a post;

How many e-cars are sold in 2015, we'll see

[ROCKMAN]

Thanks clif. Mistyped...meant 2015. Heck, pick up truck sales had already been booming. Maybe we need to chart a new stat: PU truck sales/e-car sales. Might be a good gauge on of the public's perception of PO.

[hvacman]

Sales of EV's are beginning to be driven by more than operating costs or "early adopter" tech/greenies. The pure EV Nissan Leaf has been out four years now, long enough for the early-adopter type with an inkling for "new green tech" to have purchased one long ago. It saw record sales in December, even as Silverados and F-150's also saw growing sales with plummeting gas prices. Tesla shows that in the luxury sedan market, the very-quiet/high performance experience of driving electric gathers its own growing following even among the non-greenie's with some $$$ to spend.

[ennui2]

Probably the best thing to happen to further EV adoption has been the smart-phone. People are now socially conditioned to plugging in devices that they carry around with them all the time. This is not that different from plugging in a car other than that the car carries you rather than you carrying the gadget. So a lot of the cultural aversion to plugging in that existed from the 70s through the 90s (EV-1 era) is pretty much gone. I also think people realize these things don't have to be golf carts anymore (the iMiev was the last real golf-cart type EV). Plus now gas-powered cars are full of dashboard widgets and things which continue to draw the mental connection between your car and your phone. So really, this changes the whole marketing push of the auto from a machine, which is a very 20th century way of thinking, over to a tech gadget. Over time, Jeremy Clarkson types who still have sentimental attachments to internal combustion will die off.

That doesn't change the fact that EVs need to be cheaper, better, and the battery-packs need to last longer (a current problem with the Leaf) but it does prime the cultural pumps for adoption, which is necessary.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ure ennui2, all that cultural stuff works for the millenials et.al. who don't really work but rather blog for a living. The rest of us, who have to drive around and pick up and deliver an actual bag of cement, a quart of milk for the baby (or rescue a stranded Tesla ) don't have the luxury of waiting for 24 hours for a full charge.

No, private transportation is not a Iphone. Not in America.

[Pops]

It seems to me the millennials I know aren't going so much Leaf-y as Ubber-y.

It may be the same as Boomers going Back-To-The-Land and then doing an about face and going Back-To-Wall-Street, but maybe they change in a way that we oldsters just can't comprehend - they don't buy anything.

[dohboi]

How many times have you actually run out of gas while driving?

I never have.

I bet most people never have.

Why would you think that people will suddenly become much dumber driving electric cars?

(There are plenty of good reasons to be dubious about electric cars taking a huge share of the market, but I wouldn't put this one even in the top ten, unless irrational scare-mongering along these lines ends up having some effect on purchases.)

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clif', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')the situation is not hopeless but time is running out as many have repeatedly warned.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')anada, someone needs to explain how a stranded Leaf on the side of the road is going to be recharged.

Hubbie: "Honey! I'm stuck without a charge! You were supposed to plug it in last night"

Wifey: "Don't you ever look at the amp-hours before you drive away?"

Hubbie: "Huh? Ant owl? I was downloading that Garth collection you handed me. Now I can't move. What happened to plugging it in?"

Wifie:"Maybe if you hadn't gotten the Server Farm Option for your 200,000-500,000 song-collection you'd still have power. I couldn't find the charger behind Junior's surf board collection. Well anyway, enjoy your downtime. You're going to be there for 20 hours"

Hubbie: "20 hours? There's no plug here? You mean forever. I should have bought that damn Eldorado.

[Graeme]

UN climate chief: Carbon bubble is now a reality

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he idea that investors may lose money sunk into fossil fuel projects is no longer just a theory—according to to UN climate chief Christiana Figueres, it is now a reality.

Green groups have warned that huge reserves of oil, gas and coal are overvalued and could lead to a “carbon bubble”. This is because increasingly stringent climate policies will require around half of known fossil fuels to stay in the ground, instead of returning a profit to investors.

Many, including oil giant Exxon Mobil, have shrugged off the threat. But Figueres, who leads the UN’s climate body, said that low oil prices are already affecting the market.

“A lot of the stranded asset conversations we’ve been having for a long time are now coming true,” she told RTCC, speaking in an interview from the World Future Energy Summit in Abu Dhabi.

“Those expensive oil projects — deep sea, Arctic, tar sands — those are actually beginning to be taken off the table because of the low oil prices.”

Cancelled projects

Norwegian oil major Statoil, for instance, has handed back three exploration licenses on the west coast of Greenland, where the costs of drilling are high. The dramatic drop in oil prices — which have more than halved to $45 per barrel since June 2014 — renders these kinds of projects unviable, said Figueres.

Statoil is not alone. In December, Chevron delayed plans to drill in the Canadian Arctic, citing “economic uncertainty” as oil prices fall. Last week, Shell announced it was abandoning plans for a $6.5 billion petrochemical project with Qatar Petroleum, while the UK-based Premier Oil deferred projects off Norway and in the South Atlantic.

This is only the beginning of the troubles which loom ahead for the fossil fuel industry, warns the Carbon Tracker Initiative, the group which coined the term “carbon bubble”.

The group warns of “systemic risks” to investors as governments take action to curb fossil fuel emissions and accelerate the shift to a low-carbon economy.

[Graeme]

Again that's not what the article says. Are you illiterate?

[clif]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ancelled projects

Norwegian oil major Statoil, for instance, has handed back three exploration licenses on the west coast of Greenland, where the costs of drilling are high. The dramatic drop in oil prices — which have more than halved to $45 per barrel since June 2014 — renders these kinds of projects unviable, said Figueres.

Statoil is not alone. In December, Chevron delayed plans to drill in the Canadian Arctic, citing “economic uncertainty” as oil prices fall. Last week, Shell announced it was abandoning plans for a $6.5 billion petrochemical project with Qatar Petroleum, while the UK-based Premier Oil deferred projects off Norway and in the South Atlantic.