[Sixstrings]

You can't say "all positive" -- there have been deaths.

It is dangerous to take ayahuasca if you're on anti-depressents, it's the MAOI thing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://assets-s3.mensjournal.com/img/article/the-dark-side-of-ayahuasca/298_298_the-dark-side-of-ayahuasca.jpg[/img]

The Dark Side of Ayahuasca

Last August, 18-year-old Nolan left his California home and boarded a plane to the Amazon for a 10-day, $1,200 stay at Shimbre in Peru's Amazon basin with Mancoluto – who is pitched in Shimbre's promotional materials as a man to help ayahuasca recruits "open their minds to deeper realities, develop their intuitive capabilities, and unlock untapped potential." But when Nolan – who was neither "flaky" nor "unreliable," says his father, Sean – didn't show up on his return flight home, his mother, Ingeborg Oswald, and his triplet sister, Marion, went to Peru to find him. Initially, Mancoluto, whose real name is José Pineda Vargas, told them Kyle had packed his bags and walked off without a word.

The shaman even joined Oswald on television pleading for help in finding her son, but the police in Peru remained suspicious. Under pressure, Mancoluto admitted that Nolan had died after an ayahuasca session and that his body had been buried at the edge of the property. The official cause of death has not yet been determined.

Pilgrims like Nolan are flocking to the Amazon in search of ayahuasca, either to expand their spiritual horizons or to cure alcoholism, depression, and even cancer, but what many of them find is a nightmare. Still, the airport in Iquitos is buzzing with ayahuasca tourism. Vans from shamanic lodges pick up psychedelic pilgrims from around the world, while taxi drivers peddle access to Indian medicine men. "It reminds me of how they sell cocaine and marijuana in Amsterdam," one local said. "Here, it's shamans and ayahuasca."

Few experts blame the concoction itself. Alan Shoemaker, who organizes an annual shamanism conference in Iquitos, says, "Ayahuasca is one of the sacred power plants and is completely nonaddictive, has been used for literally thousands of years for healing and divination purposes . . . and dying from overdose is virtually impossible."

Still, no one monitors the medicine men, their claims, or their credentials. No one is making sure they screen patients for, say, heart problems, although ayahuasca is known to boost pulse rates and blood pressure. (When French citizen Celine René Margarite Briset died from a heart attack after taking ayahuasca in the Amazonian city of Yurimaguas in 2011, it was reported she had a preexisting heart condition.)

And though many prospective ayahuasca-takers – people likely to have been prescribed antidepressants – struggle with addiction and depression, few shamans know or care to ask about antidepressants like Prozac, which can be deadly when mixed with ayahuasca. Reports suggested that a clash of meds killed 39-year-old Frenchman Fabrice Champion, who died a few months after Briset in an Iquitos-based lodge called Espiritu de Anaconda (which had already experienced one death and has since changed its name to Anaconda Cosmica). No one has been charged in either case.
http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-dark-side-of-ayahuasca-20130215

[SeaGypsy]

Anyone studying the chemistry & effect of various psychedelics would soon learn that Ayahuasca type drugs (DMT, NMT etc.) are a lot less dangerous than LSD, particularly because the former exist naturally in our bodies & our bodies know how to process them, also because LSD leaves crystals in the synapses which can take many years to break down (flashback syndrome, ongoing drug induced psychosis).

[Sixstrings]

Right, right, I didn't mean to make LSD sound cool by the way.

It was a very long time ago, did it once, glad I'm okay. *knock on wood!*

Or maybe I'm not and that's why I'm so OCD, now I need the ayahuasca for that problem. (joke, I'm not touching that stuff nor any other drug for "recreation" or "mind expansion" that's just my choice others can make their choice)

[SeaGypsy]

Me, LSD x 30, MDMA x 10, psilocybin mushrooms x 100, DMT types x 40, datura x 30, heavy opiates x 100, cocaine x 2, amphetamine x 40, Ganga x 30,000. Days in prison x 0. Hospitalisation based on above x twice on Datura, both times until meeting the shrink in Monday morning.

[Rod_Cloutier]

I took Ayahausca again this weekend. I got to experience the joy and awesomeness of existing again. It was awesomeness to the power of infinity, plus joy to the power of infinity, plus happiness to the power of infinity, plus a sacred sadness to the power of infinity, also evil to the power of infinity (This was scary), and each and every emotion to the power of infinity.

When I awoke the awesomeness of living seemed apparent to me. Life is sacred and it is a miracle that it exists at all. Consciousness is also a miracle, the divine self-awareness of your own glory of being. The God of my understanding is now magnificent beyond anything any religion in the world is selling. All of human knowledge and experience is but the tiniest drop in the bucket compared to the magnificence of what God is, yet it is all still special, sacred, beautiful and wondrous to the power of infinity.

Still as wonderful as all of this was, it seemed incomplete. God was present there with me, but I couldn't connect to the all. I couldn't connect to anyone else in existence. I was lonely to the power of infinity. I wanted to share the joy, and the ecstasy of being with everyone else in the world. With my wife, my kids, my co-workers, people that I only know online such as you folk, and strangers that I don't know. I felt sadness to the power of infinity that what I was experiencing in those moments could not be shared?

At some level I concluded the whole thing must just be a hallucination because I could not interact with and become other people. If I am like God, as I felt, then why couldn't I become someone else? Why couldn't I become you? Why couldn't I become my wife lying in bed right beside me? So I felt the mystery of life to the power of infinity.

These events and experiences seem so profound I feel compelled to share what I have gained. What I have gained seems complementary to waking reality, it doesn't take away from the day to day experience of conscious life; it adds the specialness of what I already had. Life seems so much more precious to me since I have been taking Ayahausca, it has literally saved my life.

I feel God led me to Ayahausca, it is wonderful.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'I') took Ayahausca again this weekend. I got to experience the joy and awesomeness of existing again. It was awesomeness to the power of infinity, plus joy to the power of infinity, plus happiness to the power of infinity, plus a sacred sadness to the power of infinity, also evil to the power of infinity (This was scary), and each and every emotion to the power of infinity.

When I awoke the awesomeness of living seemed apparent to me. Life is sacred and it is a miracle that it exists at all. Consciousness is also a miracle, the divine self-awareness of your own glory of being. The God of my understanding is now magnificent beyond anything any religion in the world is selling. All of human knowledge and experience is but the tiniest drop in the bucket compared to the magnificence of what God is, yet it is all still special, sacred, beautiful and wondrous to the power of infinity.

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e are talking about drugs, here. It's not all good times

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'A')s I've said, I have felt evil to the power of infinity, hate to the power of infinity, misery to the power of infinity, they all have a role with 'WHAT IS'. Everything that exists and that can be known is a part of what God is. Bigotry, violence, catastrophe, it all exists, it is all real.

I've learned in these experiences that you can not know joy if you don't know pain and misery, Joy is only possible if you know it's opposite. Love is only possible if you have fear, ect. The dark side's purpose is to allow us to experience the light side, if all was light, if all was joy, you wouldn't be able to appreciate the contrast. It would seem less joyful, less loving, less awesome and less magnificent without the pain, hardship, misery and fear in life.

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')idn't you say in one of the other posts though that you wonder about possible habit-forming?

[Narz]

I've thought of trying it. I kind of dislike externally imposed structure though & mushrooms are much cheaper (someone told me about an ayahausca ceremony somewhere in the NY area that ran $400 for food, overnight accommodations & supervision).

[yeahbut]

Hi Repent, what an interesting series of posts! Your descriptions of the revelations you have been experiencing are vivid and compelling. You appear to have gained many valuable insights and had extraordinary experiences.

Can I offer some advice? Take a break. Take the time to process what you have already been thru. These are major voyages you have been on, and they deserve contemplation and integration. If you keep charging off on the next adventure before processing the last one, you can forget where you've been, and even get a bit lost. Such huge experiences need a lot of time to be assimilated, at least a year IMO.

As someone who has done a fair bit of voyaging myself in years gone by, I wholeheartedly recommend this approach. Revelation is worthless without integration. I have seen a few people keep seeking the revelation, it's a form of addiction in a way and can be harmful. There's an awful irony when truth seeking turns into self-deception. Let me gently remind you of your heart-felt words of only a month ago: "I feel no compulsion to ever take Ayahausca again. If I am still alive in 30 years maybe I would take it again".

I mean no offence with this post, only an insight from personal experience. All the best, fellow voyager

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'P')ure DMT is available with a wide variety of sub sets of psycho actives, with none, or almost none of the above described side effects.

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')an I offer some advice? Take a break.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'R')evelation is worthless without integration.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')It was beyond my wildest dreams and expectations. Pure joy, exploding rainbows of love and joy. The joy was so intense it felt like a thousand orgasms per second for a hour, then it diminished very gradually over a period of about six hours. It made me feel alive again. The experience was the best thing that has ever happened to me since childhood. Anyone looking for serious personal spiritual growth- this is highly recommended!

[copious.abundance]

This thread has me thinking of videos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENWV5pqWSA

And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPjVlkcai78

And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euJxxKOBcz8

All best viewed in full-screen mode.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aldente', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')It was beyond my wildest dreams and expectations. Pure joy, exploding rainbows of love and joy. The joy was so intense it felt like a thousand orgasms per second for a hour, then it diminished very gradually over a period of about six hours. It made me feel alive again. The experience was the best thing that has ever happened to me since childhood. Anyone looking for serious personal spiritual growth- this is highly recommended!

[Rod_Cloutier]

My final Ayahuasca experience. I mean this in a literal sense, I took and overdosed on this substance today, I found myself sitting on my toilet, and realized that I was dying in a very literal sense. I had a full fledged near-death experience and it wasn't pretty.

I saw the unconditional love of God, and how God had allowed and permitted me to have experiential knowledge of having it all and wasting my life, spitting into the face of opportunities, to have it all in life in my own selfish egotistical way and yet throwing it all away. How I was allowed to fail, and flail around so that I could benefit from the insights of what happens when a person literally flushes their life down the toilet. This was tough love for someone who wanted from the very beginning to separate himself from God.

I was with God and told essentially what I had done, and made me aware of how I had ruined my own life, how most of the choices I made were totally, epically stupid, and this was it, my time was up, dead... naked on my toilet from a self induced drug overdose.

I begged God to give me another chance at life and I would make changes. I was then shown that I had already been given multiple second, third, forth, fifth, sixth, and seventh chances to change my life and I had done nothing to change it. This time, the game was up. This is it you are dead.

I pleaded, and God showed me how I totally screwed myself with nearly all of my major life choices from dropping out of University, culminating in this final inevitable moment, as natural consequences from the choices that I had so arrogantly made. I pleaded, begged, and sobbed, and begged some more for it not to end like this. For my wife and kids not to find me dead naked on the toilet from a drug overdose. I was shown that the police were/ are actively tracing my ayahuasca drug purchases though the mail and that even if I was to stay alive, I will potentially be going to jail.

Did I still want to stay? I told God that I can't handle jail, it would kill me, but I still wanted to go on with my life. I asked for the impossible, an eighth, final chance to reform my ways and life, starting immediately, today. Now. Right now.

I'm still here- it was granted. A wake up call that I should have seen coming. I've decided that whatever happens, jail whatever, I'm starting over and doing nearly everything differently. Change of attitude, change of predisposition, hanging up on all of the bad, epically stupid, egotistical choices I have made over decades. End of the psychedelic drug habit. Authentic living. I'm going to change my handle here from Repent to my actual name, going to get on the bus for the changes coming down the line due to limits to growth, peak oil and, AGW. Changing starting right now.

I was also given the specific memory of dying on the toilet to hang on to as a near permanent reminder of what had occurred. So whenever I was in doubt, I could refer back to the moment in crystal clarity. It was the single most 'real' moment of my entire life.

(Happy to still be here)

Rod Cloutier
(Formerly Repent- who died on a toilet seat this afternoon)

[SeaGypsy]

So sure it was God? Sounds much more like a classic experience of the id vs super consciousness, in other words, shallow self vs deeper self. Whether the deeper self is 'God' or just a personal experience or an aspect of both are all remaining questions.

Do some homework on this 'God' bloke & you will find Martin Luther all over it. Patriarchal & monotheistic old German word he used to replace polytheistic & matriarchal spiritual causative entities.

I don't want to undermine your experience, just to suggest there is a strong likelihood in the language you have used, that what has happened is a fear based reversion to subliminal childhood programming.

My 'God', I would never look for in a toilet, or even in a house. It is in nature, life, to be found in the unadulterated natural world, wilderness, not in man's constructs, even one of the greatest linguists of all time (Luther).

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rod_Cloutier', '[')b]My final Ayahuasca experience. I mean this in a literal sense, I took and overdosed on this substance today, I found myself sitting on my toilet, and realized that I was dying in a very literal sense. I had a full fledged near-death experience and it wasn't pretty.


(Happy to still be here)

Rod Cloutier
(Formerly Repent- who died on a toilet seat this afternoon)