[Cyrus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')opper prices are rising because of demand from China, not because of dwindling supplies.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cyrus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')opper prices are rising because of demand from China, not because of dwindling supplies.

[Tyler_JC]

We went from copper mines with 30%+ copper (the begining of the copper age), to today where we have mines with only .3% copper. Without lots of energy, it would be impossible to extract that copper profitably. Peak Oil also means Peak Minerals.

Cheap oil holds up our civilization and when that disappears, our civilization will disappear with it. The question is, what will replace it? And how much of this one to do we want to include in the next one?

[Cyrus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ne have to understand that the mineral market is completely different than the oil market. Copper and other metals aren't used up - they can easily be recycled.

[Starvid]

Peak Oil only means Peak Minerals if it also means Peak Energy - which it does not.

Peak Oil is not an energy crisis, it is a liquid fuels crisis.

I have said this a million times, maybe I should put it in my signature?

[RG73]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'P')eak Oil only means Peak Minerals if it also means Peak Energy - which it does not.

[Starvid]

Of course minerals are not infinite. I only said the end of oil have nothing to do with the end of minerals.

If it is as you say, that many minerals are becoming scarce, then the price will rise making recycling profitable.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course minerals are not infinite. I only said the end of oil have nothing to do with the end of minerals.

If it is as you say, that many minerals are becoming scarce, then the price will rise making recycling profitable.

[Starvid]

Let me rephrase: the end of cheap oil has nothing (or very little) to do with the end of cheap minerals.

Anyways, talking about minerals as a homomgenous group is silly. The amount of cheap iron and the amount of cheap bauxite in the ground have very little to do with each other.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')et me rephrase: the end of cheap oil has nothing (or very little) to do with the end of cheap minerals.

Anyways, talking about minerals as a homomgenous group is silly. The amount of cheap iron and the amount of cheap bauxite in the ground have very little to do with each other.

[Denny]

Bascially, copper is the building block of most thermal or electrical energy transfer equipment.

Many renewable energy concepts require a disproportionate amount of material relative to the production. For instance, either solar grids or wind technology require a collection system capable of moving a fair charge at a peak time, and this is stored and used over the lulls. But, by nature, this means a lot of material.

Are there any forecast for copper production out there? Will our future be constrained by this vital material? Aluminum can be a reasonable substitutre, but it has a huge energy input in its smelting.

[nznutter]

Hi Denny,

I think that base and precious metals will become much more scarce as mining is a very energy intensive process so it goes without saying that with declining amounts of energy available less metals will be mined.

Above ground stockpiles of copper, silver etc are near or at all time lows so it might be a good time to stock up on them if you have a bit of money lying around!

The USGS forecasts production and availability of metals. From memory silver is one of the first to run out, around 2020-2030 at current production rates.

[turmoil]

don't worry guys, we'll be able to make copper out of other stuff.

you know, alche[econo]mist style.

[UIUCstudent01]

Would certain waste disposal areas begin to be 'copper mines' (and other resources) in a sense?

(The cost of recovering and recycling discarded material begin to cost less.)

Woo, Recycling!

(Because we have to..)

[I_Like_Plants]

OK first eventually, or suddenly, we'll see, something like 90% of the population on the earth has to go. Then, living is much nicer, more free time, much better quality of life, if people grow at least some of their own food, bike instead of drive, etc. There's not going to be a NEED for nearly as much copper as is being used now. And we've got tons and tons of the stuff already mined and refined, just have to dig it out of landfills, out of the wiring in houses no one lives in any more, etc.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'O')K first eventually, or suddenly, we'll see, something like 90% of the population on the earth has to go. Then, living is much nicer, more free time, much better quality of life, if people grow at least some of their own food, bike instead of drive, etc. There's not going to be a NEED for nearly as much copper as is being used now. And we've got tons and tons of the stuff already mined and refined, just have to dig it out of landfills, out of the wiring in houses no one lives in any more, etc.

[Dezakin]

Nor does it deplete like oil does. Oh theoretically we'll get all the high grade ore bodies on earth eventually, but the stuff goes all the way down, rather than stopping where sedimentary deposits of oil resivoirs are.

[I_Like_Plants]

We won't have to dig any out of the ground, since there's so much in the houses, wires, etc. there's a LOT of copper per capita and population's going to go way down, remember. I'd not stock up on any metals.

[nznutter]

I_Like_Plants cant say I agree with you. Take silver for instance, a precious metal that has been money for 5000 years of history. It will always have value. Anything tangible will have some value. That US Dollar in your bank account will be worth 0 nip nada after peak oil has done the destruction you are forecasting.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e won't have to dig any out of the ground, since there's so much in the houses, wires, etc. there's a LOT of copper per capita and population's going to go way down, remember. I'd not stock up on any metals.