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Space The Final Frontier!

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 17:51:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')t'll happen within two decades. There's no slowing it, no disputing it, and no other alternative.

We have too many people on one small planet, and are running short of energy, water, food, cheap personal transportation, desirable home sites, etc. The rapid, non-sustainable, over-consumption of limited resources by an unlimited human population is damaging the Earth and the rate of damage is increasing.


Ever done the math to build a spaceship to carry 227,000 people off planet each and every day forever?

Not to mention the food and water, etc, to sustain them for how long to where?

We are marooned on spaceship earth.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Sixstrings » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 18:12:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'W')e are marooned on spaceship earth.


Only if we choose to be.

Our species is no more marooned on earth than it was marooned in Africa. And there was climate change back then, too, and because we were just stuck in Africa *homo sapiens came very close to total extinction*.

Getting out of Africa and spreading across the planet ensured our survival as a species. Getting off earth and spreading outward does likewise.

Survival of, and continuation of our species is really our only reason for being that we can discern -- the same directive every other organism has -- it's our primary responsibility, to out compete everything else and spread as much as we can and ensure our survival as much as we can, and that means numbers, and that means branching out if our current habitat is all full.

It's an evolutionary imperative, we must do it.

We have to -- if nothing else, there are asteroids that hit the earth at regular intervals and wipe everything out and will wipe us out too, unless we divert it or have gotten off the planet.

And, climate change wipes species out, all through the planet's history.

And, even though an asteroid WILL take us out first, assuming it did not then eventually the sun goes red giant and will incinerate the entire planet. These are facts.

(not trying to scare anyone, the red giant sun is 7.5 billion years from now :lol:. But we're actually overdue for a species-wiping asteroid. NASA is watching out for those, one could be discovered tomorrow for all we know.. we could get hit within years, or it could be 100,000 years from now but it's coming that is for sure we know that for sure.

So folks ought to support nasa, let's go ahead and go forward with the asteroid grabbing mission they've got planned. Let's keep advancing in space. It's important, we don't want to be idiot dinosaurs do we and get wiped about by a darn rock smashing into us, now that we are on the cusp of being able to stop that, right?

And think of all the other cuddly mammals on earth, they'll all be gone when the next big meteor hits -- now we can prevent that, or, we can let it happen and maybe insects get their turn at world domination.)
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 19:38:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'W')e are marooned on spaceship earth.


Only if we choose to be.


Population growth rate, laws of physics, distance to next star with possible habitable planets, makes for no choices, I am afraid.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Newfie » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 19:51:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'W')e are marooned on spaceship earth.


Only if we choose to be.


Population growth rate, laws of physics, distance to next star with possible habitable planets, makes for no choices, I am afraid.


Sounds more like "We are mooroned on Space Ship Earth."
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Lore » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 20:10:20

In the next 50 years we're going to be too busy spending our remaining resources and global treasure on just trying to survive as a species. Many will wish at the end of that time that they were off this planet.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 20:11:48

Think of the two main obstacles:

No where to go.

No way of getting there, if we knew where to go.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby SeaGypsy » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 20:15:34

Monte, you need advice from a newbie here called Kaiser Jeep. We don't need anywhere to go, we build perpetual antigravity machine centred space bases & live in them forever, sounds like fn don't it?
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 23:23:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'M')onte, you need advice from a newbie here called Kaiser Jeep. We don't need anywhere to go, we build perpetual antigravity machine centred space bases & live in them forever, sounds like fn don't it?


Yeah, and if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass. :roll:
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 23:38:47

I especially liked this one.

"Our species is no more marooned on earth than it was marooned in Africa."

I could write a book on why that isn't so. :lol:
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Wed 05 Nov 2014, 23:55:58

Here's a quote very apropos for peakoil.com:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e have not yet known a modern existence without an ever greater scale of fossil fuels, and it is their availability that has catalyzed our progress. This century, we will enter a new phase, untested by humanity. Dismissing the challenge this presents by looking beyond to a future in space is one of the best ways to ensure that such a future never comes to pass. All athletes know better than to take their eye off the ball.
- See more at: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/why-not-space/#sthash.rYJJIF7L.dpuf
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Tanada » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 07:17:51

When a learned elder tells you something is possible, they are almost always right because they have seen it happen in their lifetimes. When a learned elder tells you something is impossible? It might be, but often they are speaking from their disappointments, not current science.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Strummer » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 07:36:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'G')etting out of Africa and spreading across the planet ensured our survival as a species. Getting off earth and spreading outward does likewise.


We only spread out of Africa because there was an abundance of usable resources in the places we migrated to. We don't have a billion people living in the middle of the Sahara and Gobi deserts, do we? When we achieve that, then come back with your space talk.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MD » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 08:32:41

Again, Homo Sapiens will not be the ones to colonize the rest of the solar system.

Homo Sapiens is a young and fleeting species that happens to be "blooming" at this very moment in time.

Will the bloom wilt, wither, and die?

Will it instead evolve into what comes next, be it mechanical, biological, or some combination thereof?

Could be either, who's to say for sure.

But Homo Sapiens as the primary life form of the heavens? Nah. Too fragile and too short lived.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Lore » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 08:40:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', ' ')When a learned elder tells you something is impossible? It might be, but often they are speaking from their disappointments, not current science.


And current science tells us that the human species and life on this planet in general is already in a world of hurt.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 19:59:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'B')ut Homo Sapiens as the primary life form of the heavens? Nah. Too fragile and too short lived.


Logically and rationally.. one must conclude.. that all the galaxies -- and there's a lot of them -- are full of life, and intelligent life too.

So -- homo sapiens is already not the primary form of life in the universe, we're too young, something else out there is. We'll find out one day, hopefully it likes us! :lol:
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 20:05:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'W')hen a learned elder tells you something is possible, they are almost always right because they have seen it happen in their lifetimes. When a learned elder tells you something is impossible? It might be, but often they are speaking from their disappointments, not current science.


Very wise Tanada, and I agree.

And my gramma used to say "can't never did."

Anyhow we're all a bunch of talkers, this stuff is more up to elon musk -- he had the mars dream, but he also had the billions of dollars and the brass cajones to put it all on the line and learn the rocket business. He said he did all this *because government was not doing it, it was not furthering colonization in space and never landed anyone on Mars so he has set out to do it himself*.

How cool is that?

None of US are physicists or billionaires -- I assume :lol: -- but we are voters, and if you ever talk to your congressman then one could mention "hey I heard the Chinese are going to Mars and Obama canceled the mars mission and now there's another one, I'd like you to not cancel the next one."

And you're smarter than I am Tanada, I'm sure you know about all the really important telescopes and science stuff nasa does, I assume you support it -- everyone should be for that, nasa needs to keep its funding at least and not get stuff canceled like that hubble successor (did that ever get reinstated, I can't remember).
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 20:06:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')
Let me ask you a different kind of question,

which do you WANT to be true?

Do you WANT the doomer story to be true? Or are you pro space but just see all these opposing factors to it?


Doomer story? Doomerism has nothing to do with the question.

If we had fusion power the answer is the same.

Pro space? Not against exploring space, but the money could be better spent educating people from kindergarten on about the laws of physics and the laws of ecology.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') say it will be: there is no land bridge that homo sapiens never bothered to walk across. There is no ocean that homo sapiens never got on a raft and drifted across, to find land on the other side. There is no ocean that wasn't sailed and explored just as soon as it could have been, when the tech was there.


No, when the tug was there. No bounty of food or sense of safety tugs us into space.

We didn't occupy Antarctica or the Gobi desert as it was too hostile, required too much outside support.

We will always wear spacesuits, no matter where we go. We will need shielding from Gamma radiation. Our bones will atrophy. I could write a book...
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 20:22:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'P')ro space? Not against exploring space, but the money could be better spent educating people from kindergarten on about the laws of physics and the laws of ecology.


Spending billions to give all kids a physics education would actually be the best thing for space exploration. :lol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e will always wear spacesuits, no matter where we go. We will need shielding from Gamma radiation. Our bones will atrophy. I could write a book...


But Monte -- the 1960s had folks like you too, they all said "it can't be done, I could write a book with all the reasons it can't be done."

First man in space -- most medical experts and scientists seriously thought there's no way the human body can survive in zero g, at all.

So anyhow, Russians launched sputnik. Then first man in space. So Kennedy said "f*ck it, what can we do to beat them? And he was told "put a man on the moon" so he says ok, we're gonna put a man on the moon. It was impossible -- but they did it. They figured it out.

So now you say it's impossible for people to live in zero g, where do you get that from.

Going all the way back to skylab -- those guys did fine. Actually skylab astronauts had the least bone loss. I think it's because skylab was a saturn V stage and it was so big and they could run around the thing like a hamster, and just had more room.

But anyhow, then Russians had guys on Mir for very long periods.

And then the space station and that's been there forever. Monte, NASA already knows all about rates of bone loss, if they say it's possible how do you say it's impossible.

As for bone loss -- the thing is, if you live in zero g, then you needn't be more strong than your environment is requiring you to be, anyway. But there's mitigation stuff they do, lots of exercise, and nutritional supplements.

Yes we'd always need technology in space but Monte, tech isn't going away anyhow. Evolution-wise, we're likely headed for a cybernetic hybrid future.

If the AI singularity gets done.. if you can get robots that can make other robots.. and by then we'll have asteroid mining figured out (there was a private company mining satellite on that orbital launch that blew up), then there's no stopping this.

Add in 3d printers. Robots making robots. Even if we all died from ebola or something, the robots would continue on.
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Re: Are humans likely to colonize space?

Postby MonteQuest » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 20:38:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'B')ut Monte -- the 1960s had folks like you too, they all said "it can't be done, I could write a book with all the reasons it can't be done."


We have nowhere to go and no way to get there if we did. Space is just too vast, even at the speed of light.
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