[Subjectivist]

Given enough time then God willing we can do anything.

[Lore]

Monkeys, typewriters and with an infinite amount of time can eventually bang out the works of Shakespeare. Unfortunately God has chosen not to give the human race infinite time.

[KaiserJeep]

It'll happen within two decades. There's no slowing it, no disputing it, and no other alternative.

We have too many people on one small planet, and are running short of energy, water, food, cheap personal transportation, desirable home sites, etc. The rapid, non-sustainable, over-consumption of limited resources by an unlimited human population is damaging the Earth and the rate of damage is increasing.

Expanding into our solar system enables access to virtually endless space, with virtually endless supplies of energy, water, food, and raw materials. It offers a way for technology to advance even faster, for freedom-loving people to live where governments cannot mess with them, and for Capitalism to continue to expand our Economy on an ever-increasing curve.

To those obsessed with obscure and erroneous 19th and 20th century writers - none of whom ever conceived of a frontier that is in fact virtually unlimited - this is bad news, all of their heroes have feet of clay.

Too bad, so sad. It's good news for the human species. There is no reason tens of trillions of humans cannot live just in this solar system alone.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')t'll happen within two decades. There's no slowing it, no disputing it, and no other alternative.

We have too many people on one small planet, and are running short of energy, water, food, cheap personal transportation, desirable home sites, etc. The rapid, non-sustainable, over-consumption of limited resources by an unlimited human population is damaging the Earth and the rate of damage is increasing.

Expanding into our solar system enables access to virtually endless space, with virtually endless supplies of energy, water, food, and raw materials. It offers a way for technology to advance even faster, for freedom-loving people to live where governments cannot mess with them, and for Capitalism to continue to expand our Economy on an ever-increasing curve.

To those obsessed with obscure and erroneous 19th and 20th century writers - none of whom ever conceived of a frontier that is in fact virtually unlimited - this is bad news, all of their heroes have feet of clay.

Too bad, so sad. It's good news for the human species. There is no reason tens of trillions of humans cannot live just in this solar system alone.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon

[Sixstrings]

Our manifest destiny really is to be a great nation, we've got no excuse right now, our ancestors pushed the frontiers and built everything to this point, starting with nothing but a bunch of dirt and hostile indians everywhere scalping us left and right. Did Americans ever give up? No.

That's how we became the greatest nation in the history of the world. Manifest Destiny. Doing the things everyone else says "can't be done." Climbing the highest mountains. Going to the moon, just because it's hard and it's there.

We've been around for centuries now. Let's not give up just yet, it's not necessary; we're #1 in energy again. We have the best military in the world and nobody can take it on or compete with it. We're not a threat to anyone though, we don't annex anybody, but we will defend ourselves and our allies.

(and let me tell you something, I don't want to see it get to that point and nobody in American leadership ever wants war. I've got a great uncle in my family tree that came back from liberating France and he had brain injury from shrapnel and was never right again. I've got a neighbor that's a vet and all kinds of problems now from Desert Storm, and liberating Kuwait. This sh*t is a thankless task and we really do not want it but it has always fallen to us, throughout our history. So I'd say to Russia, don't nuke us bro, we actually don't want a war with you for crying out loud. Have a space race with us instead, ok? And don't annex a nato Estonia, don't push us to a point where it has to be war, we do not want that all we get out of that is vets with PTSD and missing limbs and it wouldn't go well for Russia either so please just don't do it. Find some other way to have national pride and national unity.)

Anyhow, we do need to do as John Kennedy implored us to, and reach for the stars again, and other big things too. America is proud that it got the moon, that it won two world wars and a cold war and kept democracy alive in the world, that we brought democracy to the world to start with, in the totalitarian 18th century. Americans are proud we brought electricity to the world, and the internet, and all of these things -- we aren't proud of ever annexing anyone.

Let's defend ourselves and our allies and defend democracy because that is our manifest destiny too and what we have always done, but otherwise we need to do peaceful big things as well. We need our new generation of Eddisons and Fords. We need to get the wagons going again and push the last frontier that is there, our moon and solar system.

And if Putin doesn't like it that we think we are "exceptional" then that's just too bad. The Russians have always been welcome to get on the wagon with us, they were invited in on some Apollo missions, and we did the space station with them. Now they're going off on their own again, that's their choice, so okay go and be exceptional yourselves -- I'd LOVE IT if Russia did some amazing cool thing in space if it's not just a weapon, that advances all humanity. Land on Mars before we do, feel proud and exceptional and rightly so.

The rest of the world has brainwashed us lately and made us feel embarassed about "American exceptionalism" but guys listen, nationalism is actually on the rise in the world. These same places trying to take us down a few pegs are puffing themselves up at the same time and they are *all fired up* and acting like it's 1870.

Let's just not all turn anti-American, you know? I mean, we are Americans right? If even we go anti-American we're totally screwed, right?

If we fall, the rest of the world may say "good riddance" but then mark my words they'd all be complaining in twenty years when a totaltarian emprie is really putting the screws to them, and they don't have uncle sam the gentle giant to kick around anymore.

[Subjectivist]

Mans goals must exceed his grasp, or what is the future for?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'G')otta find a worm-hole, and pronto!

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') got the worm-hole shite from the Matthew McConaughey movie preview, where he says "I'm givin' her all she's got, captain! Her worm-hole is closing and if we don't engage your star-drive we may never dip that wickie" It really didn't happen in actual life. And never will.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'P')starr -- the one thing I know about history is that anyone that ever said a certain technology "would never happen" has always turned out wrong, without exception.

[Sixstrings]

I mean, pstarr, just look at history.

Look at the development of ships.

When columbus sailed, everyone said it was impossible. Everything is impossible, until someone figures it out and it's not impossible anymore.

Getting to the moon was "impossible," they had to develop all that tech from scratch.

Here's the first combat submarine, from the 18th century:



Seriously, name one broad *field of tech* that has stayed stagnate and never got better, once it got rolling?

Ok I know a lot of things don't work out, like some of Nicolai Teslas ideas but who knows about that too maybe that's possible -- actually I just googled it and I guess there is wireless electricity now:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ireless electricity? It's here
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/14/tech/innovation/wireless-electricity/

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', 'I')f we can successfully transistion off fossil fuels with the more essential aspects of our technological civilization intact, I think, yes it is possible. I even think its possible we might be able to go beyond our own star systems. They have already worked out tentative designs and mathematics of how a warp drive ship might function, even if it isn't certain if such a ship is theoritically possible.

http://members.tripod.com/da_theoretical1/

But, I dont think we are going to get out of the mess we are in right now by sending some of our population out into space. The EROEI does not seem that promising.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou could warp him over to my house and we could have a one-on-one here?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') have spent four decades thinking about this, since Dad got a NASA job in 1965. I kept up with Dyson, Sagan, Drake, and so on.

In brief, the physics don't entirely prevent interstellar migration, but human biology and human nature does.

It is indisputable that the next generation of telescopes will be able to detect earthlike extrasolar planets - if any exist, if we don't blow ourselves up first.