[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') just reject that analysis out of hand, Kub

I dare you to build a Ford Taurus solely via manpower (or little Chinese girl-power for that matter) for 90% of the cost of one built using FFed infrastructure - how silly.

[Pops]

Oops, nevermind.

LOL!

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'L')et's say we had no fossil fuels. You have to pay someone, at minimum wage, to do the work equivalent of that 46 barrels of oil. So you pay a bunch of guys to pedal on bike generators. If we use the above example of $110k for the value of minimum wage work in a barrel of oil, that comes out to about $5 million.

[kublikhan]

Well of course we would do that. It was just an illustration to help people visualize how much energy is in a barrel of oil. Exactly how much energy is in 46 barrels of oil anyway? $5 million worth of human gerbil labor that's how much!

[Pops]

Jeeze Plant, don't you get it? FFs make PV & Nukes affordable just like they do Taurases! I believe it's doubtful they can replicate themselves on their own power let alone anything resembling the modern world.

That's the whole point of PO: Petroleum is the Grand Enabler, from the pop in yer Rice Krispies to the Do in your Doo Wop.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'J')eeze Plant, don't you get it? FFs make PV & Nukes affordable just like they do Taurases! I believe it's doubtful they can replicate themselves on their own power let alone anything resembling the modern world.

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
As a sign painter I do all my work by bicycle. In fact I paint signs while astride my recombinant bike. The signs dry faster that way. And when I blow on my tuba I always strike the Downward Dog pose. It helps my breathing and so I emit less carbon. I am one of the very few who still actually dines on carob-chip cookies.

[Pops]

Yeah Burning Man, I don't get it, LOL I'm more of a Telluride Bluegrass kinda guy.

But it does remind me of the old saying familiar to any "head" of a certain age:
Dope without money is better than money with no dope
Or some such.

Replace "dope" with "energy" and you may get the point: oil is not replaceable with any "renewable" source. Renewables are a product of a technological society, not the other way 'round.

If PV were "self-replicating" you could simply seed energy-poor, non-electrified mud-hut villages of the world with a few of them then go back in a few years to find a Cuisinart on every granite countertop and the kids sitting under the A/C playing XBox.

--
No haven't sold yet, I took OF2's word that the economy was going to boom this year but it fizzled instead.

[KaiserJeep]

The easy way to understand what embodied energy means is to take some well known commodity and calculate what it would cost to produce it using only recycled materials and renewable energy.

When you examine that most well-known of electric vehicles from that perspective, a Tesla Model S becomes a totally unaffordable $8M vehicle. Even a new high-end golf cart with lead-acid batteries becomes a $60,000 vehicle, and would sell little better than a Tesla Model S does in the present economy.

Those on Middle Class incomes will dream of sleek new bicycles with electric assist. But most will never afford them because they have to eat first.

Indeed a world without FF is a very different world.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '
')I think my all American made Motorhome is a very green thing by the way, no hotels are built for my vacation, no lights left on by motel 6 adds, no employees driving to work at a hotel, no cleaning of hotel rooms and laundry, excess electric with few spending the night, no excess water use, my Motorhome has a solar panel, I use less water than any hotel person, my fuel use is less because I drive little because of 7 mpg, I use far less than staying at a hotel and I eat in my Motorhome so no excess waste from Denny's and fast food joints because of hotel travelers..

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '
')I think my all American made Motorhome is a very green thing by the way, no hotels are built for my vacation, no lights left on by motel 6 adds, no employees driving to work at a hotel, no cleaning of hotel rooms and laundry, excess electric with few spending the night, no excess water use, my Motorhome has a solar panel, I use less water than any hotel person, my fuel use is less because I drive little because of 7 mpg, I use far less than staying at a hotel and I eat in my Motorhome so no excess waste from Denny's and fast food joints because of hotel travelers..

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')he easy way to understand what embodied energy means is to take some well known commodity and calculate what it would cost to produce it using only recycled materials and renewable energy.

When you examine that most well-known of electric vehicles from that perspective, a Tesla Model S becomes a totally unaffordable $8M vehicle. Even a new high-end golf cart with lead-acid batteries becomes a $60,000 vehicle, and would sell little better than a Tesla Model S does in the present economy.

Those on Middle Class incomes will dream of sleek new bicycles with electric assist. But most will never afford them because they have to eat first.

Indeed a world without FF is a very different world.

[kirbydaniels]

Recently I have replaced my hvac systems with the efficient ones. My hvac contractor from havc service manalapan has told me how inefficient hvac systems emits a lot of co2 and also they consume lot of energy. Therefore I replaced my inefficient hvac systems with the efficient ones. In lowering the carbon footprint I have also started saving water at my home and started planting trees in my garden.

[americandream]

I seldom use my car, I walk everywhere other than long distances. I buy locally and generally follow the sort of life I did when I smallholded in Orkney.