[Strummer]

If we started when Limits To Growth came out, we could've covered the Sahara with solar panels, converted the infrastructure to electricity and be done with it by now. Or deep ocean methane hydrate mining, or whatever. There are a million things we could do right now here on Earth that are a million times more effective, cheaper and easier than this space crap. Want to colonize Mars? Why not colonize all Earth's deserts first? It makes about the same sense.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')'m an Engineer. We work in applied science. Note that I didn't even capitalize the word, because I don't worship science as do many here.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', 'I')f we started when Limits To Growth came out, we could've covered the Sahara with solar panels, converted the infrastructure to electricity and be done with it by now. Or deep ocean methane hydrate mining, or whatever. There are a million things we could do right now here on Earth that are a million times more effective, cheaper and easier than this space crap. Want to colonize Mars? Why not colonize all Earth's deserts first? It makes about the same sense.

[KaiserJeep]

Besides that, who knows what we might find in space. Does anybody remember what the space tug Nostromo was doing when it encountered a distress call (Alien (1979))?

Why, it was towing a huge automated refinery full of oil to Earth:

....en route, the refinery was processing the oil into fuels and petroleum feedstocks.

Just because we run out of native Earth petroleum doesn't mean we have to give up on fossil fuels. There might be hundreds of times more hydrocarbons in the form of comets in our own solar system than there are on Earth, for example.

We might have cheap gasoline for thousands of more years. Maybe the Earth could support 100 billion humans if we find enough dirt cheap forms of carbon to burn. Maybe the next oil boom will be when we mine the rings of Saturn, after discovering that brown color is petroleum....

And if those alien nasties get loose on Earth, why the place was getting overcrowded, anyways.....

.....so you turn the place into a hunting preserve. Always look for the upside!

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')'m an Engineer. We work in applied science. Note that I didn't even capitalize the word, because I don't worship science as do many here.

[dinopello]

Well, KJ I'm a 40 something engineer (although mostly in management these days) without any children so I don't think you are talking to me. Lately, I've been more interested in people than technology so I'm thinking of a career transition except it would necessarily involve a deep cut in cash flow which is tough but actually might be a good thing long term.

How about you - are you also childless or are you adding to the population problem ?

[KaiserJeep]

No, I had one child who is now married, in her mid-30's and childless herself. I am at the end of a long career in electronics and computers. My Engineering degree was taken in 1977 after a short but interesting career as an Electronics Tech during the Vietnam War.

Nowadays I mentor and manage other Engineers, while I myself shuffle papers. I never make it in a lab anymore, I'm sustaining some of the equipment that I designed in prior years. My equipment sits quietly in secret air-conditioned rooms and counts money. If you buy/sell stocks and bonds, fly on an airplane, buy or sell online, use teller machines, cellphones, or mobile devices, or if you have ever read an online ad, then my work product has touched your life.

I'm looking at retirement, and trying to decide where. I have a few years because my wife is a CPA and a few years younger, she is not ready to give up the rat race. I need to sell my house in Silicon Valley and move elsewhere, where life is more relaxed.

[Quinny]

Come clean Gary - you are having a laugh with all this space crap aren't you?

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'C')ome clean Gary - you are having a laugh with all this space crap aren't you?

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'K')J, you need to provide evidence 7 billion is truly the post-peak carrying capacity of earth. We are post-peak (<45 API crude-only), per capita fuel use has decreased world wide (since 1979). Yet all and all things are pretty nice. When will the dieoff actually begin?

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '[')i]Ringworld is Sci-Fi. The Fi stands for FICTION.



People don't actually live there. lol

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')hat will buy us the time to spread throughout space in the next generation of Capitalist Splendor.

[Quinny]

After some thought I think it's the Worlds Food needs!


http://zemonster.tripod.com/cheesy.html

[Withnail]

As another poster said, this is just a plot device of the sci fi film 'Moon'.

Nonsense and balderdash.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'A')s another poster said, this is just a plot device of the sci fi film 'Moon'.

Nonsense and balderdash.

[Timo]

KJ, it doesn't happen very often her at PO, but on this one, i'm with you. I readily acknowledge that there are technologies that can sustain us in the here and now of 21st Century Planet Earth, but actually implementing those technologies on a world-wide scale will never, ever happen. Should we? Yes. Will we? Nope. Unfortunately, this means that the Earth's carrying capacity will continue to be compromised, meaning that mid-century, as we approach the 9 billion pop threshold, the Earth's ability to sustain us will be even less than it is today. Humans are not wired for collective survival. It's all about me, don't you know. As long as i survive, i couldn't care less about you.

Now, us humans do have some pretty good technologies that we are in the process of using, and that's very good. The more of those we can get into use, the better. But, our attempts at retrofitting our ways of life are pretty half-assed, meaning too little too late. The planet, and everything on it, does not have the luxury of time to spend while we finally figure out how to save ourselves. We do need these technologies, and full speed ahead in getting them put into use. But, we also need to expand our resources because #1, if we don't, we're screwed; and #2, as we humans look to the future, we'd be utterly stupid if we did not pursue and all of the above strategy for researching and developing sources of energy. Granted, humans are pretty stupid to begin with, on a generalized level, anyway, but there are some absolutely brilliant examples of scientists (and enginners, no caps) among us (i'm not one!) who we we do collectively look to to help us figure things out. To rule out using the moon's He3 for r&d on a future fuel for mankind is thinking very small. Not pursuing all means available is collective suicide. Your grandchildren, and your great grandchildren will die, in part because of your refusal to project and act for their needs. He3 may not be the answer that solves all of our energy problems, but those answers that we may one day discover will be built on that r&d that we develop today.