[Pops]

I realise we have a mega merged thread on battery technology but because it is stuffed with a new miracle every day, I first read this somewhere else.

Better batteries with pure lithium anodes
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he low mass and huge electropositivity of lithium allow lithium ion batteries to store far more energy per unit mass than alternatives like nickel–cadmium, so they are the batteries of choice for mobile phones and laptop computers. But lithium's electropositivity makes it highly reactive, and, to keep it safe, manufacturers often have to restrict the amount of lithium in the electrodes, limiting the batteries' capacities. Now, researchers in the US have developed a coating that could allow next generation batteries to have pure lithium anodes.

[Longtimber]

Perhaps Second to oil, the key development for modern life? For electro-chemical energy density, Lithium is king. ( Check the Periodic table ) An electrifying read,
http://www.amazon.com/Bottled-Lightning ... d+lighting

[steam_cannon]

I'm very positive on batteries technologies.

Regarding the carbon nano coating idea, I don't see any problem with it. Nanoscale advances are what it's all about. The only trouble is usually scaling. A researcher might tease x% more out of a battery for $10,000 per battery but the question is can that scale to a factory for a cost of $1 or less? The other issue with nano coatings is I imagine it would probably fail rapidly once it reaches it's end of life. But since the technology extends the battery charge cycle life and durability, it looks like a clear win. So yeah, this looks like some great research.

There is a lot of great battery research these days and great diy projects too, like DIY magnesium air batteries and DIY Lead Alums rechargeable batteries. Very cool stuff.

[efarmer]

http://www.mining.com/web/america-finds ... n-wyoming/

Is a link to a massive lithium find in Wyoming with some built in geographic and thermal advantages that could make Lithium a real driver of progress inside of the USA and not another strategic mineral to fight over internationally.

I we had national leadership, this would be a project to fund and nurture maybe starting with a big feedstock deal with the new Tesla production plant.

[Longtimber]

Tesla and Panasonic "finally??" reach agreement on Gigafactory
http://beta.slashdot.org/story/205223

[efarmer]

Right as rain Peter. Gasoline is an energy dense nectar for vehicular propulsion.
But I recently drove a lady friend's Prius around Houston, with a huge amount of stop and go, some highway, some suburban sidestreet cruising and it was magnificent so far as gasoline consumption. The battery is not Lithium but rather a nickel metal hydride with a circa ten year life, but the principle of electric propulsion for stop and go and traffic crawls and ICE for use when the ICE is up on the sweet portion of it's power curve much of the time shocked even a gimmick averse person such as me with how smooth and efficient it actually is. I suppose driving around with a pretty woman might have played a part of it, but Lithium cells are the energy density darlings of real production battery types right now, and I know they are going to keep taking larger and larger market share. This is why I think the Wyoming resource should get federal strategic funding that includes creation of a to scale lithium cell recycling plant, which to me is a missing key part of the deal. (There is one operating, but it is smallish compared to the amount of Li cells being fielded.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'T')his is why I think the Wyoming resource should get federal strategic funding that includes creation of a to scale lithium cell recycling plant, which to me is a missing key part of the deal.

[StarvingLion]

Instead of starting a new thread on battery, you should delete them all because they are irrelevant. The situation of 40 years of Financial Fraud due to FIAT money is now so bad that there appears to be no solution to electricity generation for the STUPID MASSES. In other words, tent city won't be using any electricity.

If the Model Template of the Electron Economy, France, can't even replace its existing nuclear reactors just to keep the lights on, then any consideration of putting a bunch of EV's on the roads is pure fantasy. No amount of nano-bullshit is going to make the fact that France is broke go away.

The Marxist Wonderland that the STUPID MASSES adore can't even make use of coal to generate electricity. The coal has to be sold off to pay for the fat idiots with rainbow hair in long lines at Wally World.

In summary, there is no juice to charge the batteries...any battery tech. Hence, no growth. Hence, government sponsored scams to cover up the fact there is no growth. End result: Ponzi goes bad.

You super-guru tech "geniuses" need to spin the propellers on your hats and go back to your Steve Jobs reality distortion fields and come to grips with this simple fact:

Any electrical generator that includes the expensive, old fashioned steam-turbine/generator combination is a NON-STARTER, get it?

[Longtimber]

Rodger on energy density of batteries, 2 liters of petro packages the energy of a metric ton of batteries, but that's what God or cosmics delt us.. EV's bring so much to the table as far as pushing the efficiency envelope while TPTB .. ie .. gov/auto dealers/parts network/IOC's squirm as impact of disruptive technology reallocates money and power. Edison shall finally smile from his grave.

[Longtimber]

"Any electrical generator that includes the expensive, old fashioned steam-turbine/generator combination is a NON-STARTER, get it?"
You forgot to throw the grid into there too...

50:1 reduction in energy made possible by EV tech allows Distributed PV do just fine for charging, for those that convert oil to PV charging infrastructure in time.

[kublikhan]

StarvingLion - Based on your last few posts, I gather that you despise solar, nuclear, coal, (actually any steam/generators), batteries, Marxism, Capitalism, Steve Jobs, and people in general. All of that negative energy is unhealthy. Perhaps take a break from the forums and spend some time with something that makes you happy?

[KaiserJeep]

StarvingLion,

Your unfounded and ill-advised sarcasm aside, please note:

1) France is broke not because it chose nuclear energy, but because it chose to spend money on Socialist-style entitlement programs versus a steady replacement of aging reactors as they reached end-of-life. Then they made use of increasingly expensive life extension programs for those reactors, without ever producing any replacements. Bad planning plus a "kick the can" philosophy of postponing energy expenses. Their economy once enjoyed the cheapest electricity in Europe plus excess capacity that they sold over the power grid to other EU countries. Then they made bad choices, as did Germany which is replacing nuclear baseline generation with coal plants.

2) Batteries in EVs can be charged by Nuclear energy, Fossil energy, or Renewable energy. For the most part, EVs would be charged by slow overnight charging in residences. This INCREASES the efficiency of baseline power generation and does not require any infrastructure upgrades to the power grid itself.

3) Although metallic Lithium batteries are denser than the present technology Lithium-Ion batteries, the fire danger is extreme. Metallic Lithium spontaneously combusts when exposed to air, and practically explodes when exposed to water. That is of course what the nano-tech coating is about, but in an accident, the coating would most likely fail due to mechanical damage. Once the high-temperature combustion begins, adjacent cells will also burn. As a viable vehicle energy store, this battery would have to be compared to the (already hazardous) Lithium-Ion technology.

5) Steam turbine power plants have lower fuel costs than either ICE (i.e. disel engine) or gas turbine power plants fired with natural gas, while having the ability to burn multiple fuels from methane gas to coal to wood chips. They are also cheaper to construct and maintain in sizes that exceed about 650kW capacity.

In actual truth, most gas vehicle usage could be replaced with a low tech vehicle costing $10K with low tech lead-acid batteries. Such vehicles have ranges less than 50 miles, but the typical US commute is 18 miles round trip.

Everybody wants one of these:

...a $108,000 Tesla "S" with 200 mile range.

When what would meet their needs is a $10,000 NEV/LSV:

....basicly a low tech, street-legal golf car. Even with limited range, limited top speed, and using batteries full of caustic sulphuric acid, these vehicles are safer to drive than high tech, high expense vehicles intended for highway use.

[Pops]

AFA unleaded vs batteries, I'm not all that interested in keeping up the 15,000 miles per year habit, most of society could get by easily on half - then a quarter, then an eighth of that if it was made clear to them that is the future.

I'm more interested in a few hundred kilowatts overnight to keep the lavalight on and the mp3 player charged up.

[efarmer]

Kublikhan, no I just grazed the info to see if we had a lithium play other than Nevada so as not to need the foreign feedstock. Also I agree a modest vehicle with lead acid batteries and perhaps another slightly up the scale hybrid with lead acid and an ICE (liquid fueled) in the modest price range would be useful.

So far as everything not being worth doing because space is a vacuum due to the whole word sucking, well I hit that spot when I am analytical sometimes and it is a miserable place to get stuck. I am alive, and I wish to try things and be stimulated by success and failure and keep learning.

[KaiserJeep]

Lithium can also be extracted from sea water. The ores are generally cheaper unless you have another purpose such as a desalinization plant whose main purpose is to produce fresh water, but which also produces sea salt and metals as by-products.

There are very few environmental downsides to sea water extraction when compared to mining, especially if the desalinization is via solar energy or nuclear energy.

[Longtimber]

"I'm more interested in a few hundred kilowatts overnight to keep the lavalight on and the mp3 player charged up"
Don't forget the notebook. possibly under 100 watt/hr may be your "need" with the right gear. 160 watt/hrs = 16 - 18650's wired 2P8S and a small PV Panel/controller. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IOCQ4QU?psc=1
Each 18650 is ~10 watt/hrs ... depending on cell quality. Most equip we spec works on 8-30Vdc. LED drivers, Comm/Internet gear, fans, etc.

[StarvingLion]

This thread (along with almost every other one) is just another example of:

"The R&D will save us...The R&D will save us...The R&D will save us"

Its a mental illness, induced by FIAT easy money policies.