[Apollo]

An interesting take on the early success of the now defunct TheOilDrum:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n Engineering fields, such as energy, peer reviewed work is generally not too difficult to grasp, perhaps requiring some college grade mathematics or physics, but rarely highly advanced knowledge. While most engineers and economists should be able to gather the sort of knowledge published by TheOilDrum just by browsing peer reviewed literature, in practice they are barred from it due to the closed access policy prevailing in Academia.

[Paulo1]

I am still hoping that TOD returns after this break. While they drifted in scope and message towards the end, contributions by readers, expert opinions, and links were excellent.

Paulo

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he message that dominated the final years of the website, inducing that nothing practical can be made about Peak Oil or other energy constraints, is self defeating. If nothing can be done, then why bother?

[ROCKMAN]

Pops – “…was mostly about rocks and though they are sorta interesting, there are just a heck of a lot of other angles to the story.” So true IMHO. They hold very little of my interest in this PO saga. And I’m a geologist. LOL.

But the rocks themselves haven’t held much interest for me even in the oil patch. I’ve always focused more on the processes: the deposition of rocks, their chemical alterations, structural deformation, etc. Even today I have only one in my collection: a very nice piece of pyrite. And I keep it around just to remind me to never again do really stupid/dangerous things for shiny baubles like I did when I almost killed myself collecting that pyrite in a Mexican copper mine many decades ago. LOL.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote(' ', 'W')hile most engineers and economists should be able to gather the sort of knowledge published by TheOilDrum just by browsing peer reviewed literature, in practice they are barred from it due to the closed access policy prevailing in Academia.

[Apollo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is no "closed access" policy in Academia.

[step back]

There are different levels of credentials and pomposity.

The Oil Drum (TOD) had fairly good credentials but no pomposity.

Academia is big on pomposity.

[rockdoc123]

Here are some facts for you.
The information if you want to seek it out is all available any time you want (at least during opening hours) at most universities in large cities. This is especially true for the technical universities such as A&M, Brown, School of Mines etc. It is called a "library". I know that for you under the age of 40 you have probably never heard of this concept but it is where all of these journals that you see on the Internet behind paywalls are archived and available to read free of charge. Yes it is a strange concept...one that flies in the face of your understanding of internet commerce but they are stored there much as they were a number of decades ago when I was doing grad work. If you wanted to understand a subject you went and grabbed all those recent journals off the shelves (Journal of Geophysical Research, Geologisch Rundschau, Geology, AAPG Bulletin, Journal of Tectonophysics, Geology, GSA Bulleting and literally hundreds more) found a paper on the subject and then began to backtrack the various references to work your way to the source of the original idea.

So rather than academia keeping you from understanding what is going on it is your own preconceived notions (and possibly the fact you would just like to click on a mouse than get on a bus) that are keeping you from that learning.

The Oildrum provided a service but I have to tell you if you thought everything you read there was based on a lot of research and good basic knowledge in the subject you are mistaken. Some of the posts were very good, some were absolute full of BS but certainly liked to portray to everyone that they had solved some great puzzle.

The general public is easily lead astray by articles that seem to be scientifically based.....hey he/she must be brilliant because they are saying all these things in a way I can understand. A case in point was Twighlight in the Desert where the author purported to have read several hundred articles on Saudi Arabia from the SPE. A few years ago I showed how it was pretty apparent he had read the abstracts to those papers (readily available free of charge on the internet through ONEPETRO) but had not read the actual papers which told a completely different story than he was putting forth.

In any event if you want to learn about Petroleum engineering, geology, extraction etc......go to your library. Oil and Gas Journal, Oilweek are both great sources for small articles that describe all sorts of interesting things. Oh and if you go to their website you will be disappointed because it cost money to subscribe....but guess what your local university library almost certainly subscribes and you can read it free there.

sometimes the old ways are better

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Apollo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is no "closed access" policy in Academia.

[ROCKMAN]

P - Along those same lines: I've repeatedly asked those who have offered the "reason" why TOD shut down to explain the popularity of peakoil.com and why it hasn't shutdown for the same "reason" TOD did. I still haven't seen one response. The truly silly aspect of their position is that they are posting it on a peak oil website. LOL.

[Paulo1]

RocDoc,

I have done extensive research over the years....while attending university for one reason or another. I loved it, to be honest.

When you live 250 miles away from the bricks/mortar site that is no longer possible.

When you are no longer in a formal program the online journals are not easily accesible. The subscription costs for access are not worth it, imo. The ERIC system I last used was irritating.

TOD and PO provide this access and info from folks like WestTexas, yourself, Rockman, Ron P, and others with industry experience who can go to the heart of the issues. Academic research is not too appealing for those with 'cats to kill and contracts to fill.' Internet forum sites allow me to get up at 5:00 am and do some reading before the house wakes and we have to get on with life. It also allows me to quickly check posts at lunch or while supper cooks. It is also entertaining. It has been interesting to observe common themes despite different levels of doom and gloom. The data and visuals are somethings I always return to and I often post reprints and/or links to others in my life.

Paulo

[Pops]

ROCK, imho TOD tried too hard to be "official" (editors, boards, legal framework, etc) in order to affix authority to what were/are basically guesses about the future.

I'm not arguing they didn't get tired and burned out or that their content was irrelevant or that they didn't make a huge contribution to the conversation; just that educated guesses are still guesses and once you attempt to affix some kind of authority to your guess, your authority lives and dies with that guess.

To be honest, I think PO.com always had some "Authority Envy" in regard to TOD, but otoh, as "the Wild West" (as we were termed by some TODllers) the fact is we are an open forum and so antiauthoritarian by nature - and I gotta tell ya, that has hacked off more than one volunteer who couldn't handle the heat in the kitchen! LOL

We are a place for the regular Joe to discuss the news of the day, make wild ass guesses and hurl ad homs, so we really don't have any credibility to lose, LOL. OTOH, since we claim no authority and have no official stance; whatever WAG that is tossed out is just more food for thought.

Folks want gurus, someone to digest the news for them and bring down the Word from on high, so no doubt blogs will come and go but I hope PO.com stays around to digest The Word. A big hat tip to doc & yourself & Ron P & westexas and others that keep us at least somewhat squared away on the minutia of the biz.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')OD and PO provide this access and info from folks like WestTexas, yourself, Rockman, Ron P, and others with industry experience who can go to the heart of the issues. Academic research is not too appealing for those with 'cats to kill and contracts to fill.' Internet forum sites allow me to get up at 5:00 am and do some reading before the house wakes and we have to get on with life. It also allows me to quickly check posts at lunch or while supper cooks. It is also entertaining. It has been interesting to observe common themes despite different levels of doom and gloom. The data and visuals are somethings I always return to and I often post reprints and/or links to others in my life.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Paulo1', 'R')ocDoc,

I have done extensive research over the years....while attending university for one reason or another. I loved it, to be honest.

When you live 250 miles away from the bricks/mortar site that is no longer possible.

[Paulo1]

One other point about access to info.

The public needs to be informed. For the most part, folks in the oil industry doing more than basic production chores already 'get it'. For those folks, discourse on forums must seem pretty poor quality. However, I used to be in aviation in another life. While I bailed due to stagnating opportunities my friends did not. In fact, they are still involved in an industry that some of the major costs are fuel and finance. For those in the utility end of things (helicopters and fire fighting ....water bombers) their jobs will be somewhat secure for the next while. Airlines, the holy employment grail of my generation, not so much. You cannot believe their reaction when the data indicates they had better make other plans before retirment. Also, I believe I have been able to steer many future airline wannabes into other fields.

I have also been able to use this data and put it in layman terms, mostly because I have both a technical background and an arts background. I used PO information and sources as a contact person for university business students and at high school level. You can only imagine the looks of unbelieveable anger when parents confronted me about this. They could not believe I was not encouraging their children to attend university unless they had a specific focus that would take them forward in a low energy future. But, I had the facts. Now, a few years after retirement I remind some of my critical ex-colleagues the unsustainable levels of student loan debt, and the lack of opportunities for traditional university grads. I also point out the 6 figure wages for those students I got started in 'trades' in the oil industry. egads...the horror!!

So, the facts and discussion on PO should not be limited to academics or professionals any more than medical research should stop with the researchers or exist in the silos of research departments.

By the way, the most effective professor I ever had was an engineering dropout. He was attending university on the GI bill after a stint in the marines. One day he popped into a theatre on the way back from classes and heard TS Elliot read his poetry. He quit engineering that day and eventually finished off a double major in Literature and Philosophy. The world was a better place for his thoughts and knowledge. When I asked him why he told me he felt 'dead' before he started his Arts program.

Don't diss the arts, Roc Doc. We are all different.

Paulo

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')on't diss the arts, Roc Doc. We are all different.

[Apollo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'T')he information if you want to seek it out is all available any time you want (at least during opening hours) at most universities in large cities. This is especially true for the technical universities such as A&M, Brown, School of Mines etc. It is called a "library". I know that for you under the age of 40 you have probably never heard of this concept but it is where all of these journals that you see on the Internet behind paywalls are archived and available to read free of charge.

[Apollo]

It is interesting to see how this thread veered into the causes for TOD closing down; it seems most just ignored the initial post.

While it is a pity TOD closed down, the fact is that it produced an outburst of content in the many other blogs that succeeded it, and of course, here at PO

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his was true some 20 years, but not any longer.