Did you read the thread Dino? Tanada brought the topic up before the Fukushima disaster, with the idea being about the potential to use nuclear power to keep going with ICE vehicles.
(Also the oil we currently burn as liquid fuels is a 'storage device' containing billions of years of solar energy.)
PeakOil is You
CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel
Re: CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel
by SeaGypsy » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:38:01
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Re: CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel
by kublikhan » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 23:56:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')es. Biofuels have additional inputs: free solar and free photosynthesis. The plants take solar, CO2, to synthesize carbohydrates, starch, and sugars, the inputs into fermentation/distillations processes.
I think you forgot a few inputs there.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any environmentalists know that the way most corn is grown in our country is very hard on soil and uses enormous amounts of water and chemicals. In fact, a recent report for the Department of Defense acknowledged that, "Current biomass-to-fuel methods of production present a significant environmental burden GHGs, soil depletion and erosion, waste water, etc.)"
To maximize the subsidies agribusiness receives, the corn producers use monocropping that makes the crop more susceptible to insects and disease. To overcome these threats to their yield, the corn producers apply enormous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides. Although atrazine has been banned in Europe, it is the most commonly used pesticide by US corn producers. The soil erosion caused by corn monocropping creates runoff and this chemical seeps into the drinking water in many communities. EPA has established a safe level in drinking water [6], but tests have discovered 75 times that amount in some Midwestern streams.
Ethanol proponents are now claiming that there is not enough corn to "feed" ethanol plants and want to put some of the 37 million acres enrolled in the Conservation Reserve Program back into crop production. "The Conservation Reserve Program reduces soil erosion, protects the Nation's ability to produce food and fiber, reduces sedimentation in streams and lakes, improves water quality, establishes wildlife habitat, and enhances forest and wetland resources."
Increasing corn-ethanol gives you MORE pesticide contamination, MORE drilling for gas, MORE air pollution from E85 & refineries, MORE greenhouse gasses as they move to coal to power refineries, MORE demand on our water system, MORE water and air pollution, MORE soil erosion, and LESS land protected in the Conservation Reserve Program.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here will be a major and significant increase in the amount of fertilizer nutrients farmers annually mine from the soil substrate.
Potash demand in particular is likely to soar to unprecendented levels as this particular mineral fertilizer is essential for plant structural integrity. If you remove 3 tonnes per hectare of straw (an average global yield) that is a cumulative potash export of 36kg /ha on top of what is removed in the grain. Can our global potash resources stand up to such a major ramp up in demand?
The story for nitrogen is somewhat similar. Again if we look at quantifying nutrient removal. 1 tonne of cereal stubble will contain the nitrogen equivalent from 13kg of urea. So a cumulative removal of 39kg/ha of urea on top of that removed in the grain portion in a 3 tonne yield. Are our global natural gas resources up to this gearing up of the demand base?
For phosphate there is also bad news as we see additional phosphorus units being lost from the cropping system. 3 tonne of stubble removed sees the equivalent phosphorus export of around 33kg of superphosphate.
With these figures in mind, there is the potential for fertilizer prices to soar to levels not ever seen nor even imagined as this demand base kicks in. Yet again we saw more significant rises in the last week with DAP surging past the US$700 per tonne mark.
What happens to our soils as they are left exposed to the vagaries of extremes in weather with no physical defences from erosion? I shudder to think. Soil organic carbon levels will likely plummet as the practise of straw retention becomes a major short term opportunity cost.
Quite clearly cellulosic ethanol is likely to push agriculture to the brink of its true sustainability limits. And it is likely to stretch demand for fertilizers to a new level where existing and planned new capacity may struggle to satisfy the hunger of nutrient cleansed soil profiles from the Pampas of Argentina to the Prairies of the United States.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')es. But the CO1/H20/Energy system requires concrete, steel, fossil fuels, and electricity.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')y point is not that one is better than the other, but really both are loosers, not solutions. Neither will maintain our entropic, planet-destroying, consumer system, because either solution has untended consequences such as AGW, ozone depletion, erosion, water depletion, etc. etc.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Primary energy
Primary energy is an energy form found in nature that has not been subjected to any conversion or transformation process. It is energy contained in raw fuels, and other forms of energy received as input to a system. Primary energy can be non-renewable or renewable.
The concept of primary energy is used in energy statistics in the compilation of energy balances, as well as in the field of energetics. In energetics, a primary energy source (PES) refers to the energy forms required by the energy sector to generate the supply of energy carriers used by human society.
Primary energy sources are transformed in energy conversion processes to more convenient forms of energy (that can directly be used by society), such as electrical energy, refined fuels, or synthetic fuels such as hydrogen fuel. In the field of energetics, these forms are called energy carriers and correspond to the concept of "secondary energy" in energy statistics.
Conversion to energy carriers (or secondary energy)
Energy carriers are energy forms which have been transformed from primary energy sources. Electricity is one of the most common energy carriers, being transformed from various primary energy sources such as coal, oil, natural gas, and wind.
According to the laws of thermodynamics, primary energy sources cannot be produced. They must be available to society to enable the production of energy carriers.
The oil barrel is half-full.
