Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why aren't Americans getting news?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Unread postby KevO » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 02:39:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nuhax', 'T')his is just another ploy by Democrats to capitalize on Bush's current low approval ratings. The memo is a non-issue in the US. Who cares whether he made up his mind or not at that poin--does it really matter? There were more than enough reasons to go into Iraq pre and post 9/11.


You're a fascist aren't you?
A neocon.
There were no reasons to go into Iraq other than to set up a 'police station' in the middle east - you dick
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA

Unread postby KevO » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 03:07:03

more coming out now.
Looks like the US and the UK are about to fall out which would leave the US isolated from every country on earth.

I was recently in Mexico and not only did the Mexicans have utter contempt for Americans, the holidaying Brits did to........ and that's new.
Traditionally Brits admired Yanks but now they seem to hold them in the same regard as they do Germans!! This is a sea change and brought about by the Bush administration's stance on Iraq and Climate Change.

This news will further widen the gap as it will make Brits will feel morally superior


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8272787/site/newsweek/
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA

Unread postby nuhax » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 10:42:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '
')You're a fascist aren't you?
A neocon.
There were no reasons to go into Iraq other than to set up a 'police station' in the middle east - you dick



Really intelligent comments.

I like how your sig is a quote from one of the neocons oil advisers/strategists (Matthew Simmons). You seem a little off-talking points with that one.
User avatar
nuhax
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Unread postby TheTurtle » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 10:51:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '
')I was recently in Mexico and not only did the Mexicans have utter contempt for Americans,/


Probably because most of the pro-US Mexicans have already "emigrated" to the US. :-D
User avatar
TheTurtle
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi

Unread postby Free » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 15:24:55

It's funny I just talked to an American (about 40 years old) a few weeks ago, who for the first time in his life has left the US, and he said it opened up a whole new world for him. One thing he particularly noticed how much news there was here, and that in the US there were no news at all....

That's what surprises me so much, not that the politicians don't do anything to clean the house, it's like that in every country in the world. But that the big media don't even mention a huge story like the downing street memo for example, which could hurt those in power. Hello, this is meant to be the original country of "freedom of speech"?
I was also disgusted about the latest "Times" article which basically justified torture of the worst kind.
User avatar
Free
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Europe

Unread postby KevO » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 16:19:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nuhax', '[')
I like how your sig is a quote from one of the neocons oil advisers/strategists (Matthew Simmons). You seem a little off-talking points with that one.


It's called 'irony'.
It's a thing we have outside of the US

8)

KevO
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA

Unread postby LadyRuby » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 19:23:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') was recently in Mexico and not only did the Mexicans have utter contempt for Americans, the holidaying Brits did to........ and that's new.
Traditionally Brits admired Yanks but now they seem to hold them in the same regard as they do Germans!! This is a sea change and brought about by the Bush administration's stance on Iraq and Climate Change.

Believe, me, many Americans have contempt for their fellow Americans as well. Many of us "blue staters" were wishing and begging that Canada would extend it's border south and west after this most recent election. One stolen election was horrible enough. But for him to actually win (or so they say), was more than we could bear.

I've lived as an adult through Reagan, didn't like him. Through Bush, Sr., didn't like him. But George W. Bush is like nothing I've seen in my lifetime, and it's been horrifying having him as president. He will never be my president.
User avatar
LadyRuby
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon 13 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Western US
Top

Unread postby hull3551 » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 20:02:12

This is a good post. I find myself watching CSPAN more and more. Or going to the web. The Asian Times has always had thorough reporting on the global issues – especially China, Russia, India, etc. (www.atimes.com). US news (on TV, at least) is very little factually and mostly pundits speaking their belligerent minds. :x

Cable television is good any more for The Simpsons, Andy Griffith, Munsters, and South Park reruns. Quite sad. If I wasn't getting it for free, I'd probably push the TV back in the closet.
User avatar
hull3551
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun 13 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Bellingham, Wash

Unread postby Peepers » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 21:28:55

I've become partial to Bloomberg and BBC America. Occasionally I'll watch Lou Dobbs on CNN, but he's getting into a rut with the illegal aliens coverage (an adjunct of the Exporting America topic). I would think peak oil is right up his alley -- few things export Americans' money like buying increasingly expensive foreign oil!

KJP
User avatar
Peepers
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat 01 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Unread postby nuhax » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 21:48:30

I'm amazed at how anybody (whether American or otherwise) can claim a lack of news sources in the US... it's quite the OPPOSITE... In fact the US is the KING of access to news in quantity, quality and diversity.

Let's see...I'll start with 3 national cable 24/7 all-news networks (CNN, Fox, MSNBC + CNN international worldwide) + CNBC, Bloomberg + PBS, NPR + a lot of areas have either BBC or a BBC hour news program on PBS + radio talk is very popular + most cable/sat subscribers have access to independent international news... network news ABC,CBS,NBC...local news in every market even small towns... 60 minutes, nightline, 20/20 TV news programs... then of course you add all the newspapers not just the biggies NYT,Washington Post, Wall Street Journal but also there are thousands of smaller independent papers around the country... newswires like AP,UPI... and magazines-- Time, Newsweek, US News/World Report, the Nation, National Review,Business Week, Forbes tons of others...then lastly Americans are among the biggest political/news bloggers/blog-viewers on the internet, so right there you have thousands more channels of news and publishers. US book publishers are among the most prolific in terms of titles and books sold in the world for non-ficiton. Also documentaries are now becoming more popular on the big screen.

I'll stop there for now but I'm leaving a lot out still.
User avatar
nuhax
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Unread postby angrysurgeon » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 02:20:11

hey nuhax, the noise to news ratio broadcasted in the US media is skewed on the side of noise. Its widely known that if the watergate scandal would happen now in 2005,it would get a coverage of 2 hours in CNN but would be forgotten within the next few days or (maximally) week.
angrysurgeon
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun 20 Feb 2005, 04:00:00

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 03:05:56

And that long list of "news sources" cited are under the control of the same 3 people.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ

Unread postby Claudia » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 07:02:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m amazed at how anybody (whether American or otherwise) can claim a lack of news sources in the US... it's quite the OPPOSITE... In fact the US is the KING of access to news in quantity, quality and diversity.


That's it. We don't lack news. We lack consensus news.

Since there's no one single default news source that everyone turns to, people tend to pick a few sources they feel comfortable with and stick with those. I get about 80% of my news from national public radio and the remaining 20% from The New York Times, Time, and online glances at The London Times, Norwegian Aftenposten. My dad, on the other hand, gets his news from either FOX news, Rush Limbaugh or the New York Post.

You can imagine we have trouble even agreeing on basic facts, never mind opinions. I'm not saying which of us has the "right" facts, just that we live in two parallel worlds where news is concerned.

The European countries I've lived in, on the other hand, always had one major news program that the majority of the population watched in the evening after dinner, usually broadcast on the nationally-funded public television station. Like NRK in Norway, BBC in the UK. These programs are commercial-free, and therefore not as likely to be swayed to get ratings by covering human interest stories like babies trapped in wells -- something that has eaten up at least half of the news time on the major networks in the US (ABC, NBC, CBS). 20/20 is not news -- it's People Magazine on TV.

We simply lack a default, noncommercial, well-funded news source like many European countries have. Public television has The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which I love -- but it's more like a university seminar than a general news summary, with endless roundtable discussions.

So, my original point: we don't get less news than they do -- we just get less consensus news. And because we are allowed to choose our news from a dizzying range of sources, many choose news that is most fun and makes them feel the best -- heavy on entertainment, very, very low on foreign affairs. They don't even know what they're not hearing.
Last edited by Claudia on Mon 20 Jun 2005, 07:23:18, edited 1 time in total.
Claudia
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu 26 May 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby Roop » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 07:26:31

My job, official title "video monitor" is to sit a computer in a cubicle and watching 7 to 8 hours of TV news during my shift, picking out keywords and visuals for a news search database. I work for this video newsclipping service company that will remain unnamed. Mainstream American TV news, especially local TV news, is absolute GARBAGE. Among the local markets that I regularly watch are San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, Washington DC, Boston, and Philadelphia. Some programs are better than others but most of it is just poorly written, poorly researched, cliche-ridden crap. One of the worst offenders is this station in San Diego, KFMB. They are consistently incorrectly mis-reporting the news and basic historical facts, like on this past Martin Luther King Day saying that MLK was killed on April 2, 1968 at age 37, not April 4 at age 39 which is correct. That's just one example of many that I can think of. The mainstream US television media's coverage of world affairs and actual issues is a joke. It's all Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes, runaway bride, Michael Jackson, American Idol, reality TV, dog makes friends with squirrel, blah, blah, blah. One of the biggest jokes is their coverage of gas and oil prices. It's always the same thing, people filling their SUVs at gas stations bitching about the price of fuel and a profile of local pizza joint that will have to add a $1 delivery surcharge due to gas being so high. Boo-hoo. Re-goddamn-diculous, never any thought beyond the next fill-up.

Sometimes I feel like I need to get into another line of work. Fortunately Peak Oil should take care of that for me, when the economy starts to slip my job will be one of the first to fall by the wayside. Hopefully I can make it through grad school before that.

For my own purposes I get most of my news from NPR, C-SPAN, AP Wire, BBC, other internet sources, etc.
"Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows"
-Leonard Cohen
Roop
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon 06 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Louisville, Kentucky USA

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 10:48:50

Roop

Yes, news media in the US is about as informative as watching the Simpsons ( the MTV couple ) and hoping to understand the world.

For me it wasn't until I started to watch BBC World that the reality of what was happening finaly started to come to focus.

I used to think that Washington Post and the New York Times could be counted on but that idea has been completely done in by watching them over the last 6 years reporting on the Presidential Elections and on to the WMD in Iraq.
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Unread postby hull3551 » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 12:17:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Claudia', '
')That's it. We don't lack news. We lack consensus news...


Abnother thisng is that we (in the US) have a tendency to read/watch/listen to news that matches our opinion and reinforces it. You will hardly find a left-leaning person reading solely NewsMax.com, or a right-leaning person person reading AlterNet.org. We gravitate towards our sociopolitical inclinations.
User avatar
hull3551
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun 13 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Bellingham, Wash
Top

Unread postby nuhax » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 13:40:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Claudia', '
')That's it. We don't lack news. We lack consensus news.
(....)
The European countries I've lived in, on the other hand, always had one major news program that the majority of the population watched in the evening after dinner, usually broadcast on the nationally-funded public television station.
(....)
We simply lack a default, noncommercial, well-funded news source like many European countries have. Public television has The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which I love -- but it's more like a university seminar than a general news summary, with endless roundtable discussions.


Claudia, I don't see the idea of "consensus" news as a plus, it's a minus.

I listed all those news sources to make the point that in the US you have a marketplace of ideas--you decide what you want to buy into and you watch what you want to watch. There is room for a lot of opinions on all topics from human interest, entertainment to business to foreign policy. One person's noise is another's interest, it's not up to a government news department to decide what qualifies as the official news.
User avatar
nuhax
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby Claudia » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 14:47:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')laudia, I don't see the idea of "consensus" news as a plus, it's a minus.


I'm not saying it's a net plus. If all you want is consensus, you get Pravda. I'm saying it's a cultural difference between us and many European countries -- in the same way that in just about every facet of life, market forces and product diversity have penetrated more deeply in the US than in Europe. Diversity in news has a cost -- and that cost is consensus. It's just a basic equation. Neither are absolute goods. When Europeans compare our knowledge base to theirs they have to take this cultural difference into account.

Europeans also have lots of different news sources. The difference I am talking about is the anchor of the nightly public TV news halfhour, which still is sacrosanct in many households and gives people a common point of reference. They may still argue, but they're arguing about a class syllabus they've all read. So it's reasonable for them to wonder what's wrong with our syllabus, and why aren't we reading it.

And market forces. Yes, market forces drive quality, you won't get an argument there. But, classically, markets will also underfund public goods. In news, "public goods" are things like investigative reporting and overseas coverage, or complicated policy explanations, which are vastly more expensive ways to grab viewer eyeballs than infotainment and opinion pieces. Just as with public goods like clean air and clean water, the free market will tend to bring us less of this kind of news than we would benefit from collectively as a society. Hard news is getting squeezed out of prime time TV on all but the cable news networks.
Claudia
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu 26 May 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Previous

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron