[Plantagenet]

In another triumph for socialism, Cuba announced they are almost doubling the pay of nurses, from 0.50 cents a day to about a dollar a day

Cuba ups nursing pay to almost a dollar a day

Thats great news. Doubling the pay of nurses---what a triumph for socialism!

AND At the new pay rate a Cuban nurse could affort to buy a computer and chat with us here at Peakoil.com in only about 5 years, if she saved every penny she earned by not eating or drinking anything for year, never going out, not even to a movie, not buying anything else, and walking to work everyday, while living rent-free in her mom's basement for the entire time.

Of course if she splurges occasionally on a coffee at work, or going out to movie, it might take her 10 years or more to save up enough for the laptop, but since the internet is censored in Cuba and mostly unavailable to regular Cuban people she probably couldn't get on line with us here anyway.


Another triumph for socialism!

[Quinny]

I would say doubling pay is a triumph in the circumstances Cuba has found itself.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'I') would say doubling pay is a triumph in the circumstances Cuba has found itself.

[Quinny]

I wasn't acting like Cuba's a victim.

How does it compare to Haiti?

[Plantagenet]

Poverty getting worse in Cuba

The social security retirement benefit for a retiree in Cuba in 2014 is $10 per month --- that comes to about 30 cents a day to live on.

……and Cuba may to have to cut even that miserly amount because social services are taking up too much of the Cuban budget.

Thirty cents a day is too much for a retiree!!!! And thats in socialist Cuba. Retirees would have to save for months to even afford to buy their grandkids an ice cream cone on that. SHEEEEESSSSHHHH!

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'I') wasn't acting like Cuba's a victim.

How does it compare to Haiti?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'I') wasn't acting like Cuba's a victim.

How does it compare to Haiti?

[Quinny]

The fall of the USSR meant Cuba had to face what could be described as it's PO years ago.
When I first got involved in Permaculture, I went to the 2008 Permaculture Convergence and one of the guest speakers was from Cuba explaining how they had faced the difficult situation they found themselves in.

His talk was fascinating and he emphasised that the fact that Cubans were used to working communally was essential to the survival of many. They had to change car parks to banana plantations to produce food locally for Havana. Anyone interested in the story can see more here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUWces5TkCA

Haiti is Cuba's nearest neighbour and the last I looked it was capitalist.

http://country-facts.findthedata.org/compare/18-158/Cuba-vs-Haiti

Where would you rather live?


They didn't impose sanctions and they didn't encourage the fall of the Soviet Union, so I think the term found themselves in is appropriate.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'T')he fall of the USSR meant Cuba had to face what could be described as it's PO years ago.
When I first got involved in Permaculture, I went to the 2008 Permaculture Convergence and one of the guest speakers was from Cuba explaining how they had faced the difficult situation they found themselves in.

His talk was fascinating and he emphasised that the fact that Cubans were used to working communally was essential to the survival of many. They had to change car parks to banana plantations to produce food locally for Havana. Anyone interested in the story can see more here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUWces5TkCA

Haiti is Cuba's nearest neighbour and the last I looked it was capitalist.

http://country-facts.findthedata.org/compare/18-158/Cuba-vs-Haiti

Where would you rather live?


They didn't impose sanctions and they didn't encourage the fall of the Soviet Union, so I think the term found themselves in is appropriate.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'C')apitalist, socialist, those are just labels,

[Quinny]

I understand wht you are saying, but I would describe the regime in Haiti over the last few decades as being authoritarian.

Haiti's environmental record is also atrocious.

Just look on Google Earth or Maps satellite view at the border between Haiti and DR. You can see the difference in deforestation.

Comparing Cuba to France and Denmark is ridiculous.

[Pops]

Overpopulation I think is the difference in Haiti and DR. There were about 60k freemen and landowners in each country in 1800 but the French (haiti) had 500k slaves in their third of the island, while the Spanish had only 50k.

http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html

[Quinny]

Population is a key reason, but the regime hasn't helped. Amazing how two halves of the same Island can be so different. The comparison was however with Cuba.

Cuba v Dominican

http://country-facts.findthedata.org/compare/18-50/Cuba-vs-Dominican-Republic

Cuba was being ridiculed for an increase in pay which seems ridiculously small when compared to developed countries like France, US, Denmark. This was meant to demonstrate how Socialism is a failure.

I believe a more credible comparison would be to Cuba's neighbours Haiti and DR (both of whom are capitalist). As you can see Cuba seems to compare favourably despite being 'punished' by a large neighbour for adopting Socialism.

[Pops]

Sorry, guess I didn't read back far enough.

[Quinny]

Don't be sorry, although I knew about the French/Spanish split of Hispaniola, I had no idea about the disparities in slave population. It seems incredible how such a difference arose. Thanks for the lesson, I like to learn.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
What Cuba has accomplished is impressive

[Quinny]

If Cuba is held up as an example of why Socialism doesn't work, then surely it's neighbour Haiti can be shown even more as an example of why Capitalism doesn't work, as it scores below Cuba on more or less every indicator.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'C')apitalist, socialist, those are just labels,

[Quinny]

Subjectivist - I understand what you mean and discipline is important, but Papa Doc was a pretty authoritarian dictator when in control and I don't think the common factor is the authoritarianism of the country. I would say that the common factor is the progressive nature of the nations you mention. Stalin may have become a despot, but he had a plan!

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'I')f Cuba is held up as an example of why Socialism doesn't work, then surely it's neighbour Haiti can be shown even more as an example of why Capitalism doesn't work, as it scores below Cuba on more or less every indicator.