Psychology of Death - Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

by **MacG** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 15:03:17

It was this Swiss psychologist who in the 1960's-70's studied the psychologícal reactions of people who got knowledge of their rather immediate death, as delivered by the medical profession. Mostly cancer. She identified five stages they all passed, and I tend to belive that knowledge of PeakOil foster roughly similar stages. The stages are (and Bob Fosse even made a movie of it named "All that Jazz") :

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Negotiation
4) Depression
5) Acceptance

Can we translate this to something familiar? Here is a rough attempt (I reserve the exclusive right to change my mind without prior notice - this is a draft on the back of an envelope)

1) Denial - Tar sands anyone? Hydrogen..?
2) Anger - NWO, masons, bilderbergers etc...
3) Negotiation - I'll buy a Prius! OK? Join a community?? Buy a homestead??
4) Depression - We dont hear much from those. Depression is depression.
5) Acceptance - No suggestion for this one yet. Are there any in this stage yet? (Amish excluded from competition because of multiple positive doping tests)

by **Jack** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 15:26:23

Acceptance - No suggestion for this one yet. Are there any in this stage yet?

I think Pops is there. He's already living a powerdown lifestyle and seems happy to do so.

by **DomusAlbion** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 15:35:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '[')i]Acceptance - No suggestion for this one yet. Are there any in this stage yet?

I think Pops is there. He's already living a powerdown lifestyle and seems happy to do so.

by **MicroHydro** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 15:56:18

I would put join a community, buy a homestead in the acceptance category.

by **MacG** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 16:03:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') would put join a community, buy a homestead in the acceptance category.

by **MicroHydro** » Sat 18 Jun 2005, 19:47:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') would put join a community, buy a homestead in the acceptance category.

by **MacG** » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 17:16:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') would put join a community, buy a homestead in the acceptance category.

by **khebab** » Sun 19 Jun 2005, 18:21:06

I don't agree with the first interpretation:
1) Denial: societies are in denial now, they believe in a techno fix or there is plenty of oil left.
2) Anger: prices are rising too much, people are blaming politicians, oil companies, the arabs, etc.
3) Negotiation: alternatives, hydrogen. tar sands, etc.
4) Depression: alternatives are not working, recession, social unrest,...
5) Acceptance : everything is falling apart toward a new equilibrium state.

by **Chichis** » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 10:30:41

I don't think these stages apply to the current situation. It's too complex to know what the outcome is really which leaves too much room for hope. These stages only begin once hope runs out.

by **khebab** » Mon 20 Jun 2005, 11:33:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chichis', 'I') don't think these stages apply to the current situation. It's too complex to know what the outcome is really which leaves too much room for hope. These stages only begin once hope runs out.

by **BabyPeanut** » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 14:17:43

4) Depression - I hate cooking my squirrel meat with this solar oven.

by **Kent** » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:00:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '4')) Depression - I hate cooking my squirrel meat with this solar oven.

by **MacG** » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 17:36:08

Sometimes when reading other parts of this forum, I get this creeping suspicion that there is quite a lot of stage 2 roaming around. But since I'm usually wrong on most issues, I'm probably wrong on this one too.

by **Pablo2079** » Thu 30 Jun 2005, 09:28:13

I am beginning to wonder if acceptance would be turning into a doomer that doesn't feel that there is any way to escape the die off.

Negotiation, on the other hand, might be the power down lifestyle people. There are going to be so many hungry people that I don't think anyone near a city of any size will be able to protect themselves.

Imagine having your solar cells, wind power, big garden etc..... You've got a few lights on at night and you've got a batch of homemade bread that is just about done cooking in your woodfired oven. You feel relatively safe since you've got a small group of like-minded people all contributing to this lifestyle. Suddenly, a larger group of very hungry like-minded people show up and invite themselves to dinner. Do you actually think that you'll be able to stop them? Maybe you stop this group, but the story keeps repeating itself.

Obviously, there will be some remote areas that will survive. I just can't see too many remote places where this lifestyle would work. Locations that lend themselves to agriculture and a low power lifestyle are naturally in the same areas where cities are today. Most places on Earth will have problems with large hungry masses of people roaming around like locust.

My point is that acceptance might be something along the lines of "I know it's going to happen. I can't do anything about it. We're screwed, so I'm living for today."

by **MacG** » Thu 30 Jun 2005, 13:22:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pablo2079', 'M')y point is that acceptance might be something along the lines of "I know it's going to happen. I can't do anything about it. We're screwed, so I'm living for today."

by **Daculling** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 22:00:15

It's simple, you can diagnose anyone here by these criteria.

1) Denial: Does not post at all, might read
2) Anger: Posts occasionally
3) Negotiation: BiGG
4) Depression: No posts at all, hits F5 evey minute
5) Acceptance : Does not use intarnets at all.

I think I'm number 5

by **Daculling** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 22:01:24

I mean number 2, sorry drunk once again.

by **Ayoob** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 01:44:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') would put join a community, buy a homestead in the acceptance category.

by **honeylocust** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 01:55:59

Yes, these stages came to mind with PO. But it is really industrial civilization and "do people ever really learn anything?" that these 5 stages could be applied to.

Do people ever really learn anything?

by **CarlinsDarlin** » Wed 27 Jul 2005, 10:45:26

Don't forget that in negotiating those stages of grief, people can, and do, bounce from one, back to the other, and then forward again, before they finally reach acceptance.

There are days that I still get angry - everytime I see a hummer, for example lol

. Thinking about my neices and nephews and the life that they will have to lead without the comforts that we enjoy today. But then, I realize that many things for them will also be better - if they can position themselves in small sustainable communities. That's where I come in - someone has to point them in that direction.

For me, acceptance is this: There's not a lot I can do about the global picture. There's not much I can even do on the national front. I accept these facts, and I know that they will impact me and mine in the future. But there are things I can do in my community and for my family that will make the transition easier. Easier is certainly relative, as I think we're all in for a bumpy ride, but I accept what's coming and do what I can.

It's like the Serenity Prayer:
God give me the strength to deal with those things I can change,
The patience to bear those things I cannot,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Kathy

Psychology of Death - Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

Psychology of Death - Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

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