[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
Well , on the survivalist scale , I'm so cool it's freezing
no preparation whatsoever , inner city living ( go Roosters !! go !)
full service and conveniences ,as long as it last , use and abuse it !

my plan for the End of the World is to run for it and pillage the survivalists
no problem with cannibalism either , as long as its someone else
as any women or Fijian will tell you , men are pigs

survival is not about the planning ....it's about the attitude

[sparky]

.
True true , if and when , but should things turn out different I will be ready to accept that

Self sufficiency living is good for the soul , is socially constructive and morally respectable
but as a survival path it only make its proponents into pillage target
the remedy is to set up a protection system
if all you food/power is local , it work great and the usual cost is 10% of your harvest
That's called feudalism .

[Newfie]

Sparky, you have a point. Many center city dwellers, not as honest or feisty as you say simply "Then, I will die."

We too live in a large city center. Our plan has been to cultivate relationships in distant, more survivable locations, and to keep a boat as a way to get there. Not for all, but better than either quietly succumbing or turning into a beast.

So you don't get a guilt free ticket, your plan is not the only one, it is your choice.

Somehow I suspect it will look and feel very different if you ever need to implement it.

[lasseter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
my plan for the End of the World is to run for it and pillage the survivalists
no problem with cannibalism either , as long as its someone else
as any women or Fijian will tell you , men are pigs

survival is not about the planning ....it's about the attitude

[Quinny]

I think some people won't be missed much.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lasseter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
my plan for the End of the World is to run for it and pillage the survivalists
no problem with cannibalism either , as long as its someone else
as any women or Fijian will tell you , men are pigs

survival is not about the planning ....it's about the attitude

[lasseter]

Largely unworkable plans? Yes I assume many people have those. I think it is wise to have some sort of plan going forward, other than taking equity loans out of a house and buying new cars with them that is. I think that model of future planning has proved itself unworkable. As was the plan that involved spending every cent that came in the door, running up a CC as well and then wishing for a bigger bonus next x-mass from the employer to cover it all.

I believe the plans people had in olden days are best suited to life in the western world now. Plans that included actually saving money, and never spending it except in a crisis. Of buying only the necessities in tough economic times and not eating out etc. I know they are unfashionable, but it beats starving or getting kicked out and having to live in your car.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')Right. Much better to constantly post on a doomer website about the end of the world, economic doom, etc., and be constantly wrong, and then blame the lamestream media or politicians you don't like. At least you get to burn a lot of energy while doing that...

[sparky]

.
My point is that the future always turn up different from one's "expectation"
I don't believe for one second in societal collapse
before you can say ZOMBIES , the government turn authoritarian ,
proclaim a state of emergency and enforce a 12 hours curfew.
ration tickets for everyone ,
people suspected of anti-social behavior ( by a large and vague definition )
and the statistically negligible protesters are arrested
for re-educated in work camps or farms
the quasi totality of democratic politicians vote full power to the executive
those who don't are ignored , calumniated and silenced
food growers are taxed in kind and see their garden assessed
the malnourished wholeheartedly support any measures against those bastard food hoarders

For me that's the most likely scenario
So do as the philosophers recommend , grow your own ,grow your soul
but nobody is an island when the pressure is on

[sparky]

.
it has been done over and over again.
All the command and control I mentioned have been implemented since the Pharaohs
Justinian reinvigorated the Roman Empire by setting up a police state
one tenth of the population act as goons to crush the rest ,

Mao followed the great Chinese tradition of squeezing the peasants until their eyes pop out
Stalin did the same , from a very low energy base
Pol Pot got every one working , at least the survivors

I could find dozen of example of oppressive societies
in fact it is the Historical normal
I agree with your freedom versus food/energy relationship
only large increase of energy in a social system see democracy flourish
when the energy input is constant , Freedom is stagnant
when the energy input decrease , the state repression is ferocious

[lasseter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
My point is that the future always turn up different from one's "expectation"
I don't believe for one second in societal collapse

[sparky]

.
Yep as I said above , the main tool for survival ,should things turn sticky
is an open , suspicious mind
I was struck by the interview of a Jew for Byelorussia ,
when the German soldiers ( the good guys ) came to round up people for "some labor "
he immediately grabbed his son and ran for the forest
his wife and the rest hesitated and were rounded like cattle
later , with the partisans , all the survivors from other villages were the ones who had made a quick break

Life is full of surprises , most not funny at all ,
keep your eyes sharp and don't believe in Santa Claus
That's the first survival rule
Of course it's all in the timing

[Pops]

Do nothing, then become a refugee.

Good plan.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'D')o nothing, then become a refugee.

Good plan.

[Ibon]

Doing nothing doesn't always come from willful ignorance. The fate of industrial civilization and the overwhelming consequences coming our way can lead some to believe that fighting this is futile. I actuallly believe that this describes the majority of deniers of climate change and peak oil.

Others might be seeing the writing on the wall and deciding to just approach each step down the decline as an opportunity to recalibrate ones expectations and once recalibrated to then just forget about it again. This is actually really adaptive since 99% of ones time is dealing with immediate needs and only freaks like us spend more than 1% of their time on big systemic issues. We are not hard wired, either culturally or socially, to stay too long focused on longer term systemic problems.

We have talked about this in the past, just a reminder mentioning it again.

[Pops]

There is a difference I think between doing nothing and periodically recalibrating.

Sparky says totalitarian repression is more likely than collapse. Fine, what might be the plan for curfew, rationing, and work camps? Running off to the forest?

The Jews who ran away had somewhere to run to, not so future economic refugees.

Having a plan doesn't have to mean stocking up on ammo and beans.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'D')oing nothing doesn't always come from willful ignorance. The fate of industrial civilization and the overwhelming consequences coming our way can lead some to believe that fighting this is futile. I actuallly believe that this describes the majority of deniers of climate change and peak oil.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')here is a difference I think between doing nothing and periodically recalibrating.

Sparky says totalitarian repression is more likely than collapse. Fine, what might be the plan for curfew, rationing, and work camps? Running off to the forest?

The Jews who ran away had somewhere to run to, not so future economic refugees.

Having a plan doesn't have to mean stocking up on ammo and beans.

[sparky]

.
Having a plan A is good , just keep in mind that things move is unpredictable ways
so accept the idea that everything you believe might be called into question
sticking to the plan could be the best bet,
ditching it and flipping onto plan B or no plan could be good or bad ,
my advice is whatever you do , doing it fast , doing it first , give you an edge
that include preparation
I'm not totally stupid , I have a couple of months worth of long conservation food ,
enough to be easily transportable , since I rotate it , it doesn't cost me anything

also, whatever news coming over the radio is probably someone else plan
people can be wonderful ,sometimes ,
they also can be ruthless bastards most of the times when circumstances push them ,
My idea of a good plan is to have the sun rising and to still be breathing ,
not a very high expectation, I know
but if you do it long enough , you are a winner

P.S.
if societal stresses occurs , overcrowded mega-cities are not my idea of a safe , stable environment
no sir , not by a long shot