[RobertInget]

Climate deniers are positively jumping up and down to keep warm and blather on how a Polar Vortex is a Lefty plot and this record cold weather
disproves AGW. OR is it?

A record-setting heat wave impacted much of Australia during the final week of 2013 and the first week of 2014.
The heat wave was a fitting end to 2013, which has been confirmed as the hottest year in Australia on record by the Australia Bureau of Meteorology.
Although this heat wave was not as long in duration as some notable heat waves of past years, many areas recorded their hottest day on record.

A woman tries to cool off with ice in a cup on a hot day, photo courtesy of photos.com.
The heat increased across Western Australia late in December before moving into South Australia and eventually rose across parts of Queensland and New South Wales in early January.
The heat peaked across Queensland on Jan. 3, which became the hottest day on record in Queensland, according to the Australia Bureau of Meteorology.
The heat wave also had deadly impacts on the wildlife of Queensland as reports indicate as many as 100,000 bats have died from the heat, according to the RSPCA.
The highest temperature that was reported during the heat wave was 49.3 degrees on Jan. 2 in Moomba, South Australia. This temperature fell just short of the heat experienced in January of 2013.
The Bureau of Meteorology also reported that 34 locations in Australia set all-time high temperature records between Dec. 30 and Jan. 4.
While the heat has relaxed across most of Australia, heat is building once again across much of Western Australia and will reach Perth by the weekend.
High temperatures in Perth are expected to reach and perhaps exceed 40 C (104 F).
Weather News >

[Strummer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')So you have major change 1000 years ago and you can pretty much dismiss the 9000 years before that. The next big change was McCormick’s reaper and the cotton gin in the 1800s.
So what different picture do you see looking back past 250 years?

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he goal of capitalism is not "continuous growth", it is continuous accumulation via private property, I never have figured out the whole bit about "continuous growth" outside of banking. Acquisition would still be the goal in a zero sum world and maybe even more important in a world where "wealth" and growth is negative.

You could cut off all the ff energy and shutter all the banks tomorrow and the economy would go into freefall but the goal (after survival) would still be acquiring more, not "continuous growth". It might only mean more rutabagas in the root cellar, but the natural tendency is then more rutabaga growing room, then more rutabaga tenders, etc.

Am I right that the folks who typically agitate for true communism are the folks from whom nothing would be taken in the great reshuffling? Whatever economic model is not to blame for the ills of the world, human's penchant for acquisition and finding an "easier way" perhaps is.

Perhaps there were people once upon a time who didn't compete with each other for resources. I think it likely their populations were kept in check by other means that precluded the need for direct competition. What we idolize as idyllic from our antibiotic disinfected couches (cracks stuffed with stale cheese doodles) was maybe not so. In the end, the proof of the success of that strategy in a "modern" population pressured world is in how many of those folks are left.

So is GW going to end capitalism? I think it's hardly likely, I've mentioned all the billions made just as a result of Katrina and Sandy. There is lots of money to be made repairing broken windows.

[Pops]

Wealth is relative, warlords in Somalia are at the top of their particular heap. Just because the heap is pretty small doesn't seem to have caused an outbreak of the "sharing" economy or ecotopian communes, LOL. It is capitalism at it's most basic: for profit, private enterprise.

I didn't say profit would increase forever, in fact profits and accumulation could decrease forever and still private, for profit ownership would survive. The Idea is accumulation and even in a decreasing economy you can bet someone will be profiting and accumulating.

So again, I think it is doubtful GW by itself means the end of capitalism - as much as some think the end of capitalism would be the end of GW.

[RobertInget]

It's not difficult to predict climate outcomes, reputable science overwhelms us with confirming data on now a daily basis. My personal revelation came only the other day when Rush Limbaugh named the 'Polar Vortex' a left wing plot. It suddenly occurred to me, Nothing Rush or Al Gore say will halt, even exacerbate drastic life changing conditions.

Capitalism will accommodate itself to conditions. China, Vietnam,
prove this daily.

I'm reminded of Churches in Guatemala prior to slaughter of a hundred thousand Native American Indians in the region. In every
village courtyards, steps leading up to the Church entrance were decorated with symbols of the local native religion. Catholic priests
simply ignored those displays even on saint's days. Priests, unlike the right wing army, knew it was better to adapt, than to punish and forbid.
Contrast North and South Korea.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')ealth is relative, warlords in Somalia are at the top of their particular heap. Just because the heap is pretty small doesn't seem to have caused an outbreak of the "sharing" economy or ecotopian communes, LOL. It is capitalism at it's most basic: for profit, private enterprise.

I didn't say profit would increase forever, in fact profits and accumulation could decrease forever and still private, for profit ownership would survive. The Idea is accumulation and even in a decreasing economy you can bet someone will be profiting and accumulating.

So again, I think it is doubtful GW by itself means the end of capitalism - as much as some think the end of capitalism would be the end of GW.

[radon1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')How is it possible to earn return on capital in a closed static economic system? What kind of capitalism is this where there is no return on capital?

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')ealth is relative, warlords in Somalia are at the top of their particular heap. Just because the heap is pretty small doesn't seem to have caused an outbreak of the "sharing" economy or ecotopian communes, LOL. It is capitalism at it's most basic: for profit, private enterprise.

I didn't say profit would increase forever, in fact profits and accumulation could decrease forever and still private, for profit ownership would survive. The Idea is accumulation and even in a decreasing economy you can bet someone will be profiting and accumulating.

So again, I think it is doubtful GW by itself means the end of capitalism - as much as some think the end of capitalism would be the end of GW.

[radon1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')I didn't say profit would increase forever, in fact profits and accumulation could decrease forever and still private, for profit ownership would survive. The Idea is accumulation and even in a decreasing economy you can bet someone will be profiting and accumulating.

[americandream]

Just to clarify accumulation:

Prior to capitalism, there was no such thing as accumulation. Accumulation requires the presence of labour, surplus value and derivative structures in order to amplify said accumulaion. This accounts for why gold made sense in the feudal era where wealth was largely fixed (obtained by conquest) and hereditary. In contrast, capitalism gravitates towards a casino like state as these derivative structures take precedence over labour.

Capitalism was a product of its time. It will never be replicated again. It will reach its logical conclusion and something else (which contemplates the shadow of capitalism, will replace it. It may be crude warlordism (a mix of feudalism but with the crude greed of capital) or labour accession to the commons.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'E')conomists have been obsessed with the need for growth for centuries. In all that time there has always been a growing population which was in fact the cause of the need for growth not some inherent flaw in the capitalistic economic system. When the population stops growing and indeed starts to decline where will there be a need for growth in the economy? Will not next years Christmas sales be just as good as last years sales if there are the same number of stockings to fill. Will not last years harvest be sufficient if there are the same or less mouths to feed?
Yes capitalism will face challenges ahead and it will win.

[ralfy]

From what I know, the goal of capitalism is profit. The process is achieved through continuous growth. Accumulation of private property was more prominent centuries ago, but it's now accumulation of money for re-investment.

The need for continuous growth was explained in another thread, and it's not very hard to understand. The profit generated by a business acts like interest: it increases money supply. That money is ultimately invested in increasing production and consumption of goods.

In a zero sum world, there will be no profit or return on investment, no competition, a population that plateaus, and no material resource gain due to technology and no loss due to environmental damage, global warming, etc.

Accumulating more is only part of the process in capitalism. Rather, it's accumulating more which can be used to capitalize more production of goods in return for more profits. Thus, capitalism takes place not only when goods are produced, but when a profit is made from sale of goods, and the profit reinvested in the business to produce more goods. Given a fixed cost, the producer makes more profits given more goods produced and sold. With competition, he can sell goods at lower prices and thus gain market share.

I think that criticism of capitalism in this forum is not necessarily meant to call for communism but to realize that continuous growth, which is part of capitalism, cannot continue not only due to global warming but to peak oil, as both lead to a decrease in resources needed to increase production of goods.

Now, if global warming and even peak oil won't lead to a decrease in the production of goods, then one can probably argue that capitalism will end. In fact, in many ways, we are seeing something like that right now, given the belief that more money created will, among others, increase oil production readily.

[americandream]

ralfy

I will be brief. The notion of profit is somewhat misleading as it is an abstract rather meaningless term when used in the revolutionary context. The specific use of the term "accumulation" was designed to convey the actual object at work with the rise of the urbanisation of labour in factories. As distinct from the manner in which serfs were applied by the nobility (as indentured soldiers as well as their periodic tithes....there was no accumulation in feudalism as you will understand in what follows)

Bourgeoise gather labourers in factories (or offices by contemporary culture) where their surplus value is accumulated by the capitalist, as a bee would extract, going from worker to worker. The accumulation of that value, represented for the purposes of exchange by money (where the workers component of the surplus value is further captured by the capitalist), of course leads to further investment injection back into the process. As the momentum of surplus value gathers pace, the risk of consumer inflation rises, heralding growth and central bank managed inflation) (good inflation).

The momentum of surplus value is forever weighted by the costs ( capitalists incur in applying their capital or bad inflation), something they seek to mitigate through wages. Peak resourcing poses significant risk to this momentum in risking brewing a protracted and growing leakage out of that momentum and accumulation (the decisive class of bad inflation). With that bad inflation, a characteristic of late capitalism, comes deflation as the overcapacity of capitalists embark on a race to the bottom.

[ralfy]

Thanks, AD. I think the process has to be explained in a simpler manner as most forum members are not Marxists.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')hanks, AD. I think the process has to be explained in a simpler manner as most forum members are not Marxists.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'r')alfy

I will be brief. The notion of profit is somewhat misleading as it is an abstract rather meaningless term when used in the revolutionary context. The specific use of the term "accumulation" was designed to convey the actual object at work with the rise of the urbanisation of labour in factories. As distinct from the manner in which serfs were applied by the nobility (as indentured soldiers as well as their periodic tithes....there was no accumulation in feudalism as you will understand in what follows)

Bourgeoise gather labourers in factories (or offices by contemporary culture) where their surplus value is accumulated by the capitalist, as a bee would extract, going from worker to worker. The accumulation of that value, represented for the purposes of exchange by money (where the workers component of the surplus value is further captured by the capitalist), of course leads to further investment injection back into the process. As the momentum of surplus value gathers pace, the risk of consumer inflation rises, heralding growth and central bank managed inflation) (good inflation).

The momentum of surplus value is forever weighted by the costs ( capitalists incur in applying their capital or bad inflation), something they seek to mitigate through wages. Peak resourcing poses significant risk to this momentum in risking brewing a protracted and growing leakage out of that momentum and accumulation (the decisive class of bad inflation). With that bad inflation, a characteristic of late capitalism, comes deflation as the overcapacity of capitalists embark on a race to the bottom.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'W')hat a collection of twaddle!! AD you are beyond hope. Get a haircut and get a real job.

[Quinny]

Methinks it's a lot of the capitalists will be getting a haircut!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'M')ethinks it's a lot of the capitalists will be getting a haircut!

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'M')ethinks it's a lot of the capitalists will be getting a haircut!