[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'Y')ou have no future, the time will come when you will be unable to do your present work, you will have nothing. Reality will hit hard.

[AgentR11]

I think what you mean to say is that most middle class Americans die slowly. For humans in general. No they don't. We've crafted an artificial world here, and we die an artificial, extended, horrific death as a result.

You can choose to opt out. But you have to be a real hard *** about it.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') think what you mean to say is that most middle class Americans die slowly. For humans in general. No they don't. We've crafted an artificial world here, and we die an artificial, extended, horrific death as a result.

You can choose to opt out. But you have to be a real hard *** about it.

[Tanada]

Before the Antibiotic revolution that almost eliminated bacterial pneumonia most bed ridden people died peacefully in their sleep from oxygen deprivation due to lung infections. We certainly didn't have coma patients living for as much as a decade, most of them were dead within six months even if they were given IV fluids and nutrition. Elder care was a small time business because most of them were on their feet working until a heart attack, stroke or serious bone injury like a broken hip put them in a bed ridden state of existence, then they quickly faded away from Pneumonia.

Fortunately or not that is not the current state of affairs and is kind of off topic for the subject of how long of a work week is optimal for human beings. Hunter Gatherers typically labor 15-20 hours per week to get all their basic needs met. Farmers are more than double that amount. When industrialization first came about many employers expected 66 hours a week, 5days of 12 hour shifts plus half a day on Saturday. That kind of thinking is what created the whole move to Unionize in the first place, you actually lived a healthier, more enjoyable life if you stayed on the farm working 48 hours a week.

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') think what you mean to say is that most middle class Americans die slowly. For humans in general. No they don't. We've crafted an artificial world here, and we die an artificial, extended, horrific death as a result.

You can choose to opt out. But you have to be a real hard *** about it.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') think what you mean to say is that most middle class Americans die slowly. For humans in general. No they don't. We've crafted an artificial world here, and we die an artificial, extended, horrific death as a result.

You can choose to opt out. But you have to be a real hard *** about it.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') think what you mean to say is that most middle class Americans die slowly. For humans in general. No they don't. We've crafted an artificial world here, and we die an artificial, extended, horrific death as a result.

You can choose to opt out. But you have to be a real hard *** about it.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')orry, you are living in a fantasy world.
Arthritis: It's Debilitating and Detrimental Effects

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')orry, you are living in a fantasy world.
Arthritis: It's Debilitating and Detrimental Effects

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'E')veryone fears death. Well maybe not the Dalai Lama.

[vision-master]

You're full of BS.......

[AgentR11]

Such an amazingly insightful post.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'S')uch an amazingly insightful post.

[Newfie]

Any chance we could kinda sorta wander back in the general direction of the topic?

Here is a bit on topic by Bertrand Russel, 1933

http://grammar.about.com/od/classicessa ... leness.htm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')But although my conscience has controlled my actions, my opinions have undergone a revolution. I think that there is far too much work done in the world, that immense harm is caused by the belief that work is virtuous, and that what needs to be preached in modern industrial countries is quite different from what always has been preached.

[Subjectivist]

I guess in many ways it would be nice to have a 35 hour a week job presumably 5 days at 7 hours each. I once worked for a company where our schedule was 44 hours a week, 5 days at 8 hours plus 4 hours on Saturday. They decided to save money on overtime by changing the schedule to 5 days at 7 hours during the week and 5 hours on Saturday. Needless to say the employees were less than thrilled with having to work every saturday just to get a full regular check, and when they more or less made it mandatory I found a better job.

It wasn't so much that they cut out our overtime, but the combination of cutting the overtime and forcing a six day a week schedule was too much to ask when they were competing with other companies for reliable workers.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'I') guess in many ways it would be nice to have a 35 hour a week job presumably 5 days at 7 hours each. I once worked for a company where our schedule was 44 hours a week, 5 days at 8 hours plus 4 hours on Saturday. They decided to save money on overtime by changing the schedule to 5 days at 7 hours during the week and 5 hours on Saturday. Needless to say the employees were less than thrilled with having to work every saturday just to get a full regular check, and when they more or less made it mandatory I found a better job.

It wasn't so much that they cut out our overtime, but the combination of cutting the overtime and forcing a six day a week schedule was too much to ask when they were competing with other companies for reliable workers.

[Threepwood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')hortening the Workweek to 35 hours would have immediate and drastic effect on the US jobs market.

[Timo]

The whole concept of a 35-hour work week, imo, can and should be implemented across the country, and it would have a tremendous upside for the individual worker. People would be happier with more time away from work, and more time doing the things we always dream of doing but can't becauswe we're at work. However, there's always a downside to everything good, and one such downside would be a reduction in pay because of fewer hours worked, and potentially the need to hire more workers to maintain the same productivities required to maintain an overall stable economy. Personally, financially, i could handle the commensurate reduction in pay for fewer hours worked. It would have to be an equitable, fair, and equal reduction in both time and pay, but i could do it, and i suspect i'd be happier with my life than i am now at 40+ hours per week. If businesses are always trying to produce more outputs with less inputs, this should, theoretically, help their bottom line, and would also produce a more satisfied and ergo, more productive workforce. Now, the caveat to all this is that i've never owned my own business, so this pov is entirely one-sided.

[Newfie]

Timo,

I both strongly agree and disagree.

I think you are very right that it would have a positive effect. It would take a big bit out of unemployment and share the wealth better.

Where I think you are wrong in assuming people would be happier if they had more time to do what they want. Your in good company, Russel made the same error in his piece I linked above.

A simple fact of the human condition is that we WANT TO WORK. We want to feel like we are doing something useful for the tribe. That we are "contributing". It is typically very hard for us to stay home and do nothing, we loose our self esteem and become depressed.

"............

In my fantasy we have a system where everyone gets a fixed amount of unemployment in their lifetime. Say 6 years. You can use it at anytime, but that is all there is. No more, no waivers.

Mandatory retirement age is, oh say 66. Any unused unemployment can then be used as early retirement. So, if you are like me and been continuously employed, you can retire at 60.

Kinda like the 35 hour work week. In fact, I think we should do both.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') simple fact of the human condition is that we WANT TO WORK. We want to feel like we are doing something useful for the tribe. That we are "contributing". It is typically very hard for us to stay home and do nothing, we loose our self esteem and become depressed.