[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'L')eaving the planet is the only option for continued economic growth because we've effectively exhausted all of our earthly physical resources.

[SeaGypsy]

Orlov is exactly correct on the dynamics if off a bit on his timing. Mundane economic failure and subsequent systems failure will be the undoing of the high falutin' aspects of human endeavor. Boring. Let's keep talking about fantasy.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'i')t was composed of almost pure iridium.

[vision-master]

Asteroid TV135 heading towards Earth in 2032 could mean the end for humans

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '[')url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKMyv7oAiA]Asteroid TV135 heading towards Earth in 2032 could mean the end for humans[/url]

[Ibon]

To know of the problem and still choose to distract yourself with fantasies is an adaptive coping mechanism.

And SG said it, BORING......

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'W')e are quibbling over details again. Let me summarize my views again:

The nature of mankind during the "Long Emergency" to come will not change to any appreciable extent. We will still be separated into insular tribes divided from one another by national borders and barriers of language, culture, and ethnicity. The human race has not measurably changed in that period we call "recorded history", and we have less than that amount of time before oil, gas, and coal are depleted.

We will not magically become wiser or more environmentally conscious, we will still be squabbling over petty differences when the die-off begins. We will instead still be in acquisition mode for automobiles, central heating, mobile electronics, and other consumer goods. As these things become less affordable and food becomes more dear, we will complain and change politicians at every election if in a Democracy. In less fortunate places, gang warfare resumes and spreads, without benefit of a United Nations or a large and powerful nation like the USA to intervene.

In the USA and every other developed nation, we will finally be realizing how serious the situation is. The knowledge that each Forum member here at "Peak Oil" has today will finally be generally accepted by all. It will of course be too late to effect worldwide change. It was already too late in 1900 AD, and now there are something between 8 and 10 billion humans on the globe.

Then the hard times begin. Within a hundred years cannibalism is widespread. The slow decline of cultural norms and the agonizing forms that resource depletion imposes upon formerly comfortable lifestyles are recorded in bit-perfect digital storage.

The lucky ones with the opportunity to move into a clean and safe off-world colony do so. By then there will be precious little opportunity for such, because the original space pioneers will have their own culture, and their own population problems. But they will need laborers to build more space colonies. The new immigrants will be second class citizens.

You see? Things are not so different, after all.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')o know of the problem and still choose to distract yourself with fantasies is an adaptive coping mechanism.

And SG said it, BORING......

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lacing economics ahead of planetary survival reflects the intelligence of a 2-year old.

[SeaGypsy]

I think you have missed the gist of KJ's points John.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')here is a lot of overlap between the various modes of thought prevalent on Peak Oil dot Com.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')
On the space thing, I just don't see us ever mining something in space and then bringing it down to the surface of the Earth. Whatever you mine, the most valuable part of the result is the fact that its IN SPACE ALREADY. About as sane as manufacturing a scuba tank at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, and then shipping it to Los Angeles to sell in a dive shop 30 miles from a tank manufacturer down the highway.

[Threepwood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')bundant resources = explosive growth( population explosion). Limited resources = limited life(population quasi-stable).

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'S')till scratching my head. We were talking about the plentiful evidence that more or less homogeneous metallic objects have struck the Earth, there is plenty.

[sparky]

.
The Iridium in a meteorite is due to the observation of a thin band of deposit between two type of deposits
before the layer there is dinosaurs , after , there is none
a type of meteorite has a lot of Iridium in it ,more than the Earth crust
the thin deposit has been found all over the surface of the world,
the date is 66 millions years ago and three quarter of plants and animals died
an impact crater has been found in Mexico's Yucatan peninsula
It's a pretty good fit

[KaiserJeep]

This is a useless debate. I don't actually care whether it was pure iridium or iridium in stone. All of the heavy elements on the Earth's crust came from meteorites that struck after the core cooled and the crust formed.

All those elements are present in space. Metals, gases, water, hydrocarbons, and unlimited solar power.

We have all the knowledge, all the technology we need to explore space. We are in the development stage.

For an example of a space transportation system that requires nothing but electricity, I refer you to the Heinlein novel "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress". Electromagnet catapults are used to send capsules of food from the Lunar colony farms to Earth.

Those of you who still have doubts: I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I think most of you have closed minds on this matter, and are pre-judging without even honestly examining the possibilities.

Our Solar System has all the raw materials, all the energy, and all the space that humans need to live. We know everything we need to know to build in space. In the end, the only thing stopping us is the opposition of closed minded people.

YOU get to decide whether your mind is closed or not. Let me point out that if you failed to examine the book I pointed you at, it is likely that you already decided long ago.

The thing is that perma-culture, agrarian farming methods, environmental consciousness, worshiping a living planet, etc. etc. is no form of an answer either. If we had thought the issues through and if the people of the entire Earth had understood what was at stake and what the path to human salvation was, then we could have saved this planet as late as 200 years ago.

I go to work every day, I log on and I do my best to keep our entire world working. I care for the computers that enable Internet commerce, credit cards, stock exchanges, and all forms of virtual electronic money. That is just my personal role, there are millions of people like me, striving constantly to keep the world in business. Collectively we make it possible for 7.3B humans to live and eat and reproduce. In the last 200 years, we have all of us working together been enormously successful.

The wife and I were remarking on the air pollution here in Silicon Valley this morning. It subsequently proved to be that there was a large grass fire South of the valley and the smoke was blowing North. Then a caller on the radio mentioned that if Climate Change were not occurring, this would not be happening - it is not often that fire season here persists into late October, but there has been only trace amounts of rain so far this year.

Then of course, that person blamed "Big Oil". Naturally. He was in his car, burning fuel and spewing partially burned hydrocarbons into the air, and it was someone else's fault. He was also breaking the law and endangering those around him by talking on what was almost certainly a "hands free" cell phone - still illegal, but very unlikely that you will be caught, especially if you keep the little earpiece in your right ear where nobody can see it. But he gave only a first name and he got away with it.

For just a moment, let me speak on behalf of those of us who are still working to keep things going.

Stop telling us we cannot possibly succeed. If you have a better plan, one that allows all the various peoples of the Earth to prosper, then let us hear it.

DON'T give me this crap about organic vegetables and the benefits of manure. Your farming methods if adopted today could feed a quarter of the people already in the US, but only if we ended food exports that keep others alive. Don't give me twaddle about Solar Power, when I frequently work until after dark, then have to grocery shop, cook, and do laundry after dark.

If you have actual beneficial ideas that would help the rest of us, then let's hear them. If you just want to tell other people that what they are proposing can never work, then why don't you go and take a long walk off a short pier, with pockets full of rocks.

[SeaGypsy]

Dear Sir, you are an arrogant pompous git.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'W')e have all the knowledge, all the technology we need to explore space. We are in the development stage.

[KaiserJeep]

AgentR11, the same technique of electromagnetic catapult can be used to put payloads into orbit from the surface of the Earth. Such a system has a high capital investment (30 km of accelerator rings and a large power plant) but very low operating costs.

We are not talking about a tower 30 km high, either. A horizontal accelerator that terminates on a mountain top would work - as long as you gave the payload enough extra velocity to punch through the air and as long as it departs the catapult in a trajectory into the sky.

Payload re-entry is simple and cheap. Foamed glass re-entry shields and parachutes.

[vision-master]

KaiserJeep, why do you talk about this space stuff. Here's my question, why are we still using 1950's prolusion systems?

You talk about going to the stars, yet us plebs on planet earth are still getting around in a Model A?