[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')
I fail to see the point or advantage to building a space colony. It would be much easier to build a closed environment here on earth. I know the one time it was tried it was a failure but the experiment is much cheaper to repeat here on earth then in space. Just imagine your space ship that has landed but has not opened a hatch. It has one G gravity and 15psi outside pressure and needs no fuel or guidance to keep it in orbit. Much better to solve all the sustainability problems on small scale closed environments here on earth before we spend the resources on launching unproven technology into orbit.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')his space travel meme is just the flip side of the doomer meme. Both are childish cop outs. Adolescent fantasy that frees it's proponents from actually working to fix things.

Kaiser you claim to be a scientist. How would you propose we colonize the solar system? What is the fuel? After all, this is a fuel web site.

[Newfie]

Ya know, if you think about it, we HAVE a spaceship, we are living on it, whirling through space. We mucked it up, bad.

Your asking for a " Do over."

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')How would you propose we colonize the solar system? What is the fuel? After all, this is a fuel web site.

[KaiserJeep]

The difference would be that NOW WE KNOW. The Reverend Malthus published in 1798, which is just about the time we could have taken effective action to curb human population to sustainable levels.

Right now, the Earth's ecosystem is dying, the 6th known mass extinction, and the first one linked to human overpopulation.

The scandal of all the popular groups that claim "Green" status is that they shy away from even saying - much less debating - that human overpopulation is the one environmental problem that matters, the one that causes all the rest. These groups correctly assess the truth: Saving the Earth means Genocide for the human race - if one does not believe in space travel.

It's a binary solution set: Save the planet, or save the people. There is no viable 3rd alternative, in the absence of expanding the population into space.

The Oil Peak - all the fossil fuel peaks - are symptoms of overpopulation.

In the case of the first space colonies - human culture will have to change, the price of living on such a habitat is that you must agree to have only two children per couple. The 3rd child will be needed in some cases, to overcome people lost to accidents or disease. But reproducing without the proper "birthright" would be a capital offense.

Those that can't or won't comply would be required to leave and build their own habitat.

I don't think this will be necessary for long - the carrying capacity of the Solar System is probably tens of trillions of people - enough respite to develop practical star travel.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '-')snip-
Still haven't responded: What known principal or new gadget would allow us to colonize space?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') find that the majority of scientists are useless parasites, suckling grant money from the public teats, and interested only in their personal obsession, few of which have commercial application.n

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') find that the majority of scientists are useless parasites, suckling grant money from the public teats, and interested only in their personal obsession, few of which have commercial application.n

[Tanada]

Everyone values their own profession as a measure of self worth, and most of us look down on members of other professions we consider to be less valuable and/or competing with our profession for recognition. For example some people go into Medicine to become wealthy, but many more go into the field because they believe it is how they can help others or that they are good at doing it. Successful lawyers are people who like to argue and persuade others, often by using esoteric case law as their examples. Successful engineers build things that stand the test of time and function at or beyond the specifications of the project. Teachers believe they are leading the younger generation into becoming successful adults.

It is simply human nature, if you do not value your own work why would anyone else value it enough to pay you to do it?

[KaiserJeep]

Well said, Tanada.

In my 35 year career, I worked on one particular fault-tolerant computer system, originally called a Tandem Computer - a long gone company.

The computers I was on the design teams for run all the stocks and commodities exchanges, most of the ATMs, most of the cellphone billing, and most of the credit card transactions. If you use the Internet to buy things, you use my work product, at least to count money in the background.

Nowadays my job is to keep those same machines running long after their natural lifespans, because financial institutions are very conservative and having our completely proprietary system counting the money has proved to be very safe - it could hardly be otherwise, locked in a chilled room at an anonymous location with only local administration. I doubt that our stuff will ever be found at fault in any Internet crime, for example, because we designed it to be secure and not subject to abuse.

My stuff runs the world as you know it, and you are right - I am proud.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')
My stuff runs the world as you know it, and you are right - I am proud.

[KaiserJeep]

You appear to be reading half my posts and understanding rather less. I don't believe the "fast crash" scenario.

I mentioned that the end of the world, the mass extinction we are in now, has been going on for over a millenium. It was not technology that killed the world, it was Agriculture and Medicine. When Kunstler called his book about the Oil Peak The Long Emergency, he was certainly correct.

Space colonies a millenium from now are still soon enough. Meanwhile I have done far more than my share of making it possible for more people to live longer using less resources, while having one child.

My career could be either a service or a curse depending upon your point of view. To a Gaia worshiper, engineers would be the devil incarnate, enabling the further rape of the planet. To a Technologist, I have been a success, lived my life according to my beliefs, and I know it.

[Newfie]

Agriculture and medicine IS technology!!!!!!

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'A')griculture and medicine IS technology!!!!!!

[SeaGypsy]

Technology and science vs science fiction, text and subtext, real and imagined history- all areas of struggle for the deskchair psychiatrist computer engineer KJ.

[KaiserJeep]

SeaGypsy, I realize that I offended you in the other thread, and I quite amicably agreed to leave when requested.

Know that it was never my intent to offend you, and I am sorry it happened. I said what I said from a desire to help you, and for no other reason.

Now I wish to say, you are welcome to stay in this thread and contribute, but I have not noticed any intent to contribute in your recent posts.

As for subtext, I don't use it in an international forum where people are separated by what seems a common language - it can be misinterpreted so easily. If you thought there was content below the surface in my posts, you were wrong. I speak quite plainly and directly.

I'm finding some of your views on US history in particular a mite peculiar. I understand fully that you and I were educated in different countries using different texts, but we appear to have widely differing views upon very recent political events in particular - events I lived through and you read about.

[SeaGypsy]

Bumped for KJ's benefit- prattle on about the necessity of Space Development goes here.

[Quinny]

After a degree in Maths and getting what was one of the prime jobs as a Systems Engineer with IBM I approached a career in IT hoping to benefit mankind by enabling more efficient use of resources. I soon learned that the only resources that IT systems were used to manage were financial ones. Getting money owed in quicker and delaying payments to suppliers were the main 'benefits' that IT brought to companies. Disillusioned is nowhere near strong enough to describe how I felt..

Tandem - proud WTF?? LMFAO!!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'W')ell said, Tanada.

In my 35 year career, I worked on one particular fault-tolerant computer system, originally called a Tandem Computer - a long gone company.

The computers I was on the design teams for run all the stocks and commodities exchanges, most of the ATMs, most of the cellphone billing, and most of the credit card transactions. If you use the Internet to buy things, you use my work product, at least to count money in the background.

Nowadays my job is to keep those same machines running long after their natural lifespans, because financial institutions are very conservative and having our completely proprietary system counting the money has proved to be very safe - it could hardly be otherwise, locked in a chilled room at an anonymous location with only local administration. I doubt that our stuff will ever be found at fault in any Internet crime, for example, because we designed it to be secure and not subject to abuse.

My stuff runs the world as you know it, and you are right - I am proud.

[Subjectivist]

http://www.adn.com/2013/11/04/3157985/s ... -just.html