[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'B')ecause oil isn't the "key" part of the modern industrial society, gasoline, diesel and jet fuel are. And those are manufactured from various chemical feedstocks, an important part of which just happens to be crude oil. But just because it is important doesn't mean it is even necessary, and that is price and resource size dependent.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'd')orlomin - Drilling in urban areas can be done. But it isn't easy and it’s that much more expensive. Look up oil development in downtown Los Angeles. And it certainly won't be pleasant for the folks living in the area. Even in our spacious south Texas the Eagle Ford boom has been difficult for many locals as well as ripping up the road ways. In fact in one county they’ll replace about 80 miles of asphalt road with gravel because maintenance has gotten too expensive. But OTOH Texas is making a lot of money in the process and we are adding to our energy supply.

[ROCKMAN]

dorlomin - You would be surprised as to how innovative the oil can patch can be if 1) there's money to be made and 2) if tough rules are put in place. Even in Texas we have rules on load limits on the roads, proximity limits to existing homes, noise limits. Even timing limits: In urban areas such as Houston trucks hauling oil field equipment are not allow on our roads during rush hour periods. No drilling/noise at night. Some of the tricks in CA are rather cute: they've actually built high rise building facades in commercial districts to hide the drilling derricks.

If there's profitable oil/NG to be had we'll find a way to do it even with a lot of restrictions. Only a complete ban can stop us.

[ROCKMAN]

SG - To some degree we are a bit nationalized in the US but it hasn't been noticed since the full force has come to bear. For instance some folks take great comfort in our Strategic Petroleum Reserves. But if one has the patience to dig through the volumes of details on the LAWS controlling the SPR they'll find that it's really designed for govt use and not for the public. The govt also has the right to take every bit of offshore oil/NG royalty in kind and keep it out of the public market place. And they obviously can write new rules about anything anytime they want.

In NY they passed a law making it illegal for you to buy a big soft drink. Think about the laws that might development when we have a true emergency. Even obvious unconstitutional laws can be implemented for years before the SCOTUS might rule.

[Lore]

A lot of human freedoms go quickly by the wayside when martial law rules. The question for the future is how temporary this will be in a long emergency?

[SeaGypsy]

Might be I'm reading the wrong sites but there is a bit of noise that O would love to have a national emergency and stall the next presidential elections- become a dictator. The same sites are often saying he should be impeached for treason- but that's off topic

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'M')ight be I'm reading the wrong sites but there is a bit of noise that O would love to have a national emergency and stall the next presidential elections- become a dictator. The same sites are often saying he should be impeached for treason- but that's off topic

[SeaGypsy]

You think so Lore? Depletion economics is gonna bring out Bigfoot? It's already got folks living in the trees on the edges of most US cities. Someone who believes we are all going to stew in a few years from AGW but can't do more than scoff at the idea of democracy failing in the USA... ?

[Lore]

Not democracy, just modern capitilism based on political interests.

And major groups of human populations will long be gone before we stew in our own juices due to climate change. No amount of aboriginal thinking or living will change that.

[SeaGypsy]

Sidestepping the question. You mocked me for putting the possibility that Obama (or the next or the next POTUS) could turn dictator. Obama is currently aiding the enemy- an impeachable offense- treason. It is off topic to the OP, but so is most of the rest of the thread and it looks like Jan's not coming back- so let's have at it?

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')idestepping the question. You mocked me for putting the possibility that Obama (or the next or the next POTUS) could turn dictator. Obama is currently aiding the enemy- an impeachable offense- treason. It is off topic to the OP, but so is most of the rest of the thread and it looks like Jan's not coming back- so let's have at it?

[SeaGypsy]

Having not read the US Federal Emergency Powers Acts, I can't adequately answer the first question. Have you read them?

He's aiding Al Qaeda and a lot of less well known Salafist America haters in North Africa and the Middle East. The same people the government says masteminded 9/11.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')aving not read the US Federal Emergency Powers Acts, I can't adequately answer the first question. Have you read them?

[ROCKMAN]

Lore - And you point out one of the most unfortunate aspects of political leadership today IMHO: when you have to chose the lesser of two evils you're still choosing an evil. While this has been the situation at various times in the past I suspect it may become more common. Perhaps to the point of being the rule vs. the exception. The days of white/black hats seem long gone...if it was ever really that clear cut.

[SeaGypsy]

My reading says that Habeas Corpus may be suspended in an Emergency- under current law- for up to 2 years- meaning anybody can be locked up without right to trial. Already the Constitution has been eroded- with more on the way. Laws can be changed.

It strikes me as weird that folks like Lore can see human extinction happening in a few decades can't see the possibility of American dictatorship as a response to dire economic circumstances and subsequent unrest- only one extreme of the original point- that only the Government has access to the SPR- which as others have pointed out is already the case. Joe 6 Pack needing gas for his pickup to go lay some bricks- is not a national emergency.

[MD]

This topic has gotten off track.

"peak oil" is in the past. There is no future in it. All that is left is to watch and wait for the dynamics to play out.

It's mostly backward looking from here.

Shouldn't that be as expected?

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'T')his topic has gotten off track.

"peak oil" is in the past. There is no future in it. All that is left is to watch and wait for the dynamics to play out.

It's mostly backward looking from here.

Shouldn't that be as expected?

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'T')his topic has gotten off track.

"peak oil" is in the past. There is no future in it. All that is left is to watch and wait for the dynamics to play out.

It's mostly backward looking from here.

Shouldn't that be as expected?

[SeaGypsy]

"Always"? As the most accurate oil price forecaster in the world for a couple of years running I didn't get a single job offer, not even an enquiry.

I think there are now quite a lot of people who 'know' the reality of the dynamic we spend our time elaborating here. Some are quite eloquent also. Very few make a living out of prognosticating the dynamic- the bucks seem more in the creative exploration of possibilities- Orlov, our own W. Flynn and some others around.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ight be I'm reading the wrong sites but there is a bit of noise that O would love to have a national emergency and stall the next presidential elections- become a dictator.