Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 14 Feb 2013, 21:22:22

Obama claims that the new spending he called for in his 2013 SOTU speech "won't cost a dime"

new spending "won't cost a dime" says Obama

Obama just doesn't understand math. Its hard to imagine how he can say things like he is going to cut the deficit in half or he is going to stop the seas from rising or that the WORST RECOVERY EVER is actually going great or that he is going to create millions of "green jobs" or that the US is going to be energy independent or that his new spending doesn't cost a dime without his nose growing longer and longer and longer and longer. :roll:

Image
Obama says his new spending proposals won't cost a dime---hahahahahahahahahah!
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Beery1 » Thu 14 Feb 2013, 22:07:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')bama claims that the new spending he called for in his 2013 SOTU speech "won't cost a dime"


And while he's saying it, did you notice how black he looks? Oh silly me, of course you did. And he's not just 'friendly ex- boy scout' Denzel Washington black, he's full-on 'terrorist' Nelson Mandela black. He has to be stopped from hiring ex- Black Panthers and instituting an anarchist utopia! I reckon if you really push for it, you could get him impeached just based on the fact that this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER.
"I'm gonna have to ask you boys to stop raping our doctor."
Beery1
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue 17 Jan 2012, 21:31:15

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby ralfy » Thu 14 Feb 2013, 22:37:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
Oh there's a recovery all right---its just extremely weak. Its already the WORST RECOVERY EVER, and now consumers are getting hit with Obama's tax increases and continued high energy prices, and its looking like the overall economy will get slammed by the federal budget cuts required under Obama's budget sequester law which kicks in soon. 8)


Good grief. Nothing like another tax cut to make things right:

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of ... its-2010-6
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby John_A » Thu 14 Feb 2013, 23:12:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')bama claims that the new spending he called for in his 2013 SOTU speech "won't cost a dime"


And while he's saying it, did you notice how black he looks? Oh silly me, of course you did. And he's not just 'friendly ex- boy scout' Denzel Washington black, he's full-on 'terrorist' Nelson Mandela black. He has to be stopped from hiring ex- Black Panthers and instituting an anarchist utopia! I reckon if you really push for it, you could get him impeached just based on the fact that this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER.


Why are you so interested in his color? Are you racist?
45ACP: For when you want to send the very best.
John_A
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 21:16:36

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 15 Feb 2013, 00:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', ' ')did you notice how black he looks? ...


Not really, no.

But people's skin color sure seems to be a big deal in your little mind, Beerie. :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 15 Feb 2013, 14:45:43

The WORST RECOVERY EVER isn't going to be fixed by printing more money

No energy growth means no end to the WORST RECOVERY EVER

The Fed and the Obama White House think its business as usual, but peak oil has changed that forever---- 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 15 Feb 2013, 21:57:43

Raising taxes always hurts the economy.....but somebody forget to explain that to Obama. The latest data shows that Obama's big tax hike on working folks is hurting the economy---He increased taxes in January and now sales are dropping in February---right on schedule. The data so far shows the tax hike caused sales collapses at Wal-Mart and Family Dollar Stores. If its hurting Wal-Mart then its hurting lots of other businesses too........

Soooprise Sooooprise Obama raised taxes on working folks and now they have less money to spend....

Looks like the WORST RECOVERY EVER is about to get even worse thanks to Obama's tax increases on working folks. [smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby topcat » Fri 15 Feb 2013, 22:43:02

I think the title of this thread should/could be changed to:

This IS the WRECKOVERY!

(get used to it)
"No workey, no beef jerkey." TC

"Home is where the hot dogs are." TC
User avatar
topcat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed 01 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Northern US

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 17 Feb 2013, 18:06:36

Obama wants another trillion dollar stimulus package

Obama wants another trillion dollar stimulus

Gosh....the first stimulus produced the WORST RECOVERY EVER and was part of an avalanche of debt on Obama's watch that has added 6 trillion dollars to the deficit.

Of course, this time Obama is promising that his new spending won't add a dime to the deficit----and he wouldn't lie about something like that, would he? :roll:

Image
--- Obama promises he won't add another dime to the deficit....I'm not sure which is funnier---that Obama can keep a straight face when he lies like that or that there are so many people out there gullible enough to believe him when he spouts this malarky --Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 19 Feb 2013, 13:16:58

Businesses plan cuts in worker hours, layoffs, and reductions in hiring to try to minimize their tax increases under Obamacare

Businesses try to escape Obamacare tax burden by cutting worker's hours, not hiring, etc.

Here is the "law of unintended consequences" in action.

It will be interesting to see if this effect gets large enough to put even more of a damper on the WORST RECOVERY EVER... 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby evilgenius » Tue 19 Feb 2013, 15:52:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')if this horrid recovery Obama's fault alone, we merely need to put a ...republican into office and . . . whamo bamo! Problem fixed. Nothing about the Great and Endless Peak-Oil Recession.


Hi Pstarr:

I've told you multiple times that my opinion is that the 2008 recession and the slow post-2008 recovery are caused by peak oil and high energy prices. My issue with Obama is that he doesn't understand peak oil so his policies aren't doing the right things to address the economic problems that peak oil and high energy costs are producing.


Wow, Plantagenet, it's taken you this long to finally say something that pins you down, so that you can't backtrack or change if anybody refutes you. I know you think that your issue with Obama is that he doesn't understand PO. Obviously you are aware of the impact that high gas prices had on the bubble, causing it to burst. You still aren't treating the root causes of the bubble itself, or the societal willingness, nay, desire to re-embrace them with anything other than disdain or contempt. Neither have you said anything about the money supply and the effect its shrinking has had on the economy. The impact of house price rises and the extreme borrowing, inflating the money supply, hasn't entered into your conversation. Neither have you mentioned the leverage given to the situational impoverishment of the working man vis a vis the slow growth of wages in the face of that expansion. Nor anything about the role that the way that America pays for healthcare, where employers are tempted to 'add' to worker's wages via benefit increases, which don't cost them any taxes, rather than to outright pay their workers more to begin with. I don't believe your assertion concerning Obama because you don't offer any solutions in return and your complaints come out of context. You have steadfastly refused to establish a framework within your arguments within which people can logically respond to you and point out empirically why they think you are either right or wrong. Any agreement with you can only take place on the level of a high five. Any disagreement on the level of crossfire in a danger zone where rancor and abuse tend to collect and abide.

No, I don't think you are a racist. In fact, I think a lot of the charges floating around out there, on sites like this and in the real world, of racism are misplaced. I think mostly people are unhappy with Obama because he turned out not to be a savior, rather just another man. Seeing as how he is just another man and people thought they were voting in a savior they have begun to think from a more self-important perspective, somebody has got to fill that power vacuum and it might as well be each individual person, right? Given that, any level of performance on Obama's part short of perfect is going to garner stiffer criticism than an outright cad would receive should he be in Obama's place. Yeah, there is an element of racism involved in the counter-Obama movement, that's certain, but it is not nearly as large as most throw out there, nor is it entirely the property of the Right. Lefties are just as guilty of insinuating that you can't say anything to criticize Obama's policies because if you do you must be racist. They don't see that people who are merely trying to fill the power vacuum are not always likely to make all that much sense, so they take the lack of sense as necessarily coming from the kind of clouded mind that is racist, therefore making an equivalency between the two sources of irrationality that doesn't necessarily exist.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3730
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 19 Feb 2013, 17:39:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')Neither have you said anything about the money supply and the effect its shrinking has had on the economy.


Maybe thats because the money supply hasn't been shrinking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')Neither have you mentioned the leverage given to the situational impoverishment of the working man vis a vis the slow growth of wages


You're not paying attention---I've mentioned that frequently. And you are wrong that there is a "slow growth of wages"....if you adjust for inflation wages are effectively going down---wages for working people today are the lowest they've been in years----.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')Nor anything about the role that the way that America pays for healthcare, where employers are tempted to 'add' to worker's wages via benefit increases, which don't cost them any taxes, rather than to outright pay their workers more to begin with.


IMHO, anybody who's still got health insurance through their employer is lucky. The CBO predicts that millions of Americans will lose their private healthcare as Obamacare takes effect. Private employers will stop paying for healthcare and dump their employees on the public system. And it won't be great even for those who still keep their healthcare The Obama administration wants to start taxing those benefits, by the way.....check out your W2 because this year for the first time ever your W2 will show the cash value of your health care benefit. Most people lucky enough to still have employer paid healthcare are getting $10,000-15,000+ in healthcare bennies----if the BO people start taxing that, you're looking at another $2500-$4000 increase in your tax bill for the IRS.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ') Any agreement with you can only take place on the level of a high five. Any disagreement on the level of crossfire in a danger zone where rancor and abuse tend to collect and abide.


You are welcome to agree or disagree with me on any level you want---high five or not. And I'm happy to discuss things with folks who disagree, especially if they don't engage in rancor and abuse.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ') Lefties are ... guilty of insinuating that you can't say anything to criticize Obama's policies because if you do you must be racist.

Yup. You're 100% right about that.

HAVE A GREAT DAY

Image
HIGH FIVE!
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby evilgenius » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 13:51:10

You address my points as if to refute them, but you don't refute them with elements of your 'talking points'. Instead you address them with references to things you may have said which are essentially obscure. So far you haven't said anything to encourage me to believe that if anyone assails you and forces you to rethink your positions against Obama that you won't simply wheel in one direction or another and come against him for a whole different set of reasons.

Oh, by the way, it is essential that all benefits eventually get taxed. There can be no true market discovery under the current non-taxed benefit scheme. Instead it has created a stream of money flowing into healthcare which has been increasing year on year at a rate ever in excess of that of inflation. This is the major reason why healthcare costs so much and delivers relatively less in comparison to places where some kind of market, even a public/private partnership or socialized medicine, dominates both the money available to pay and the opportunity to provide for services.

Yes, workers wages are going down relative to inflation. In this context my saying that they are growing slowly ought not to be some kind of stumbling block. I think any reasonable person can get the point that worker's wages need to increase relative to the current state of things. Although this would have an impact on overall borrowing because it would decrease the screaming need to borrow, and thus decrease the money supply, the effect might be offset by various local economic additions and multipliers. Perhaps if we are entering an era of re-localization that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate you, Plantagenet. I do want you to actually commit to what you are saying, though, and to take the chance of being wrong. It is your deliberate effort to never admit error that flummoxes me most about what you write, how you skirt reason sometimes to make your ideological point rather than admitting you have been making your argument from a bluff, or in deliberate ignorance of many other reasons for what you are saying being true, so that you can grab the one thing that will hurt Obama and parade it about like some kind of Grand Marshall. Even the Grand Marshall has to agree to go past the crowd at some point, no parade is all about one man. You are going to have to acknowledge, at some point, all of the other reasons why this recovery is the worst ever.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3730
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 14:24:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')it is essential that all benefits eventually get taxed.


Not really. When the IRS taxes benefits all it does is reduce the value of the benefit to the recipient---and that harms the recipient.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')
Yes, workers wages are going down relative to inflation.


Glad you agree.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')I don't hate you, Plantagenet.


Gee, thanks. I don't hate you either, evilG.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')It is your deliberate effort to never admit error that flummoxes me most about what you write


You are going off the beam here. I do indeed admit error when I err.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'y')ou ... grab the one thing that will hurt Obama and parade it about

If Obama does something stupid or wrong I will criticize him, if thats what you mean. By the way, have you noticed how many people here insist absolutely everything BO says or does is great? How weird is that!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')You are going to have to acknowledge, at some point, all of the other reasons why this recovery is the worst ever.

Do you mean like peak oil and high energy prices? Those are precisely the things I point to as the main reasons for this recovery being THE WORST RECOVERY EVER. This is then compounded by Obama's policies which don't address the peak oil problem. If you think different factors are to blame, then don't keep your light under a bushel-- go ahead and make your point.

Image
Obama contemplates his policy to deal with peak oil and the economic problems it is causing
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby ralfy » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 14:56:26

"The Real Reason the Economy Is Broken (and Will Stay That Way)"

http://www.peakprosperity.com/insider/8 ... l-stay-way
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 15:25:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '&')quot;The Real Reason the Economy Is Broken (and Will Stay That Way)"

http://www.peakprosperity.com/insider/8 ... l-stay-way


Yup. Thats exactly right.

.. there has never been global economic recovery with oil prices above $100 over barrel. That is shorthand for the idea that oil is the primary lubricant of economic growth and that it is not just the amount of oil one has to burn but also the quality, or net energy, of the oil that matters.

If we want to understand why all of the tried-and-true monetary and fiscal efforts have failed, we have to appreciate the headwinds that are offered by both a condition of too-much-debt and expensive energy. Neither alone can account for the economic malaise that stalks the world.
--Chris Martenson

Yup. Thats just my point. Peak Oil and high energy prices are the fundamental problem and that is disrupting GDP growth, resulting in the WORST RECOVERY EVER.

High energy prices mean the economy can't grow. A lack of growth means we can't service the debt. In the EU they are trying to shrink their debt by austerity. Here in the USA the folks in DC decided to deal with our debts by borrowing more money to pay the interest on the debt. Once you have to borrow more money to pay the interest on the money you've already borrowed, you are doomed---and thats where Obama has now taken the USA with his 6 TRILLION bucks in new debt and the WORST RECOVERY EVER. 8)
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 17:46:45

Obama is responsible for the sequester mess

Obama should be held accountable for the sequester and the USA fiscal mess

Obama in his second term seems much more interested in scoring political points then in fixing the mess he inherited from himself after his first term.

Obama is a great presidential candidate, but has turned out to be a very poor President. 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 18:04:00

Universal Orlando drops healthcare coverage for all their part-time employees because of Obamacare

Workers losing healthcare coverage because of Obamacare

This story will be repeated many times in the coming year or two as Obamacare works its magic and destroys private employer insurance for US workers.

But its OK---rather than the employer paying for the healthcare, thanks to obamacare the workers can now go out and use their own money to buy their own insurance......WhooopEEE!..... :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby kublikhan » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 18:29:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'B')ut its OK---rather than the employer paying for the healthcare, thanks to obamacare the workers can now go out and use their own money to buy their own insurance......WhooopEEE!.....
Didn't you read the article? The employer(Universal) paid nothing for the healthcare. All they did was negotiate a group rate for the workers. The workers still had to use 100% of their own money to buy insurance, which could hardly be called insurance. It had a $5,000 payout cap. I think my dental plan is higher than that.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 19:25:41

Gosh-a-roonies Kubli----do you imagine those part-time workers are all going to organise themselves into somekind of an association and negotiate a similar group health deal for themselves to the one Universal Orlando is ending now that Obamacare has killed off their existing healthcare plan?

I don't think so. :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests