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This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby kublikhan » Thu 07 Feb 2013, 15:05:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Buddy_J', 'W')ell, when you are encouraged from the top to do anything other than reorient your skills with their value in the marketplace, of COURSE you do disability, and wait until your unemployment runs out before actually looking for work, and no one should ever ask you to retrain into a job which might pay decent wages because...heckfire...you might need to learn some math or something! Let those oil field jobs go begging because who in the hell wants to move to another state for opportunity, if the government can't drop me a high paying job requiring no skills and not minding an employee who calls in sick half the time because they stub their toe right next to my house because sure I don't want to commute, gasoline is $4/gal, then screw it! Someone help me fill out paperwork to get on the dole! I paid taxes for those 3 months I worked one summer...now I am OWED!! FEED ME! GIVE ME CASH! WHERE ARE MY FOOD STAMPS! I NEED JOB TRAINING BECAUSE EMPLOYERS DON'T LIKE MY GED EVER SINCE THE GOVERNMENT MADE IT EASY ENOUGH THAT A CHIMPANZEE CAN GET ONE! WWWHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Enough to make working people who have to support all the newly freeloading sick
Did someone forget their meds this morning? Next time you might want to take a few breaths before writing up your post. Anyway, people are moving to another state for those oil field jobs. People are arriving in droves everyday. So much so that it is straining the local resources. I'm not sure where you got the idea that no one is moving to get a job.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the boom country of Williston, North Dakota oil isn't difficult to find. A place to sleep on the other hand will take more than just sophisticated drilling equipment. "There's a huge shortage of housing, so there's a lot of people living in campers, RVs, in their cars on the streets," said Detective Amy Nickoloff with the Williston Police Department.

The population has nearly doubled in Williston in just the last few years. People keep showing up and there's no place to put them. "A lot of people who have come up here have been laid off and they can't find jobs in their hometown," said Terry Legions, Bear Paw Lodge General Manager.

The money is good, but the work is long. "We're basically on campus all the time. Six weeks on, two weeks off," said Keller. "That's seven days a week, 84 hours a week," added Legions.
Inside a North Dakota 'Man Camp'

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onfronted with the unusual problem of too many unfilled jobs and not enough empty beds to accommodate the new arrivals, North Dakota embraced the camps — typically made of low-slung, modular dormitory-style buildings — as the imperfect solution to keeping workers rested and oil flowing.

But now, even as the housing shortage worsens, towns like this one are denying new applications for the camps. In many places they have come to embody the danger of growing too big too fast, cluttering formerly idyllic vistas, straining utilities, overburdening emergency services and aggravating relatively novel problems like traffic jams, long lines and higher crime.

“We need a little time to catch our breath to figure out what resources we need in place before we keep expanding” In recent weeks, Williams County, where thousands of previously approved camp beds have yet to be built, and Mountrail County, where one-third of the population is living in temporary housing, imposed moratoriums on man camp development. McKenzie County, where the growth had been particularly untamed thanks to the absence of any zoning rules, is even considering breaking with a century of tradition and requiring building permits. “There is a testiness that’s developed in this last year because it’s so intense,”

A few years ago, when the oil boom was in its infancy, these long-shrinking communities were doing anything to encourage development. Now the state population is growing, money is pouring into communities and the unemployment rate remains by far the lowest in the nation, even though more job seekers arrive every day.
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 07 Feb 2013, 15:14:21

Every dark cloud has a silver lining.

While on a nationwide basis GDP growth is so sluggish that the post 2008 recovery is the WORST RECOVERY EVER, the economy is actually pretty darn good in parts of North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas and other areas where frakking booms are going on. High Tech is doing pretty good in SF and NY, and even real estate is showing some signs of life.

After four years of sluggish growth, ending with a thud when we got negative (!) GDP growth in Q4 2012, I'm hoping things can start to pick up here in 2013. Of course, we still have to get past the nutty budget sequester that Obama set up along with his tax increases, and then raise the debt limit again so Obama can take the USA even deeper into debt, and then start up all the new rules, healthcare exchanges, and taxes that come along with Obamacare, but I'm sure the whiz kids in DC will be up to the task of dealing with all these minor problems. :)
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Beery1 » Thu 07 Feb 2013, 18:34:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')hile on a nationwide basis GDP growth is so sluggish that the post 2008 recovery is the WORST RECOVERY EVER, the economy is actually pretty darn good in parts of North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas and other areas where frakking booms are going on. High Tech is doing pretty good in SF and NY, and even real estate is showing some signs of life.


And the Dow hit 14,000. Also, weekly applications for unemployment benefits fell 5,000, meaning that companies continue to hire at a steady pace. And retail sales at stores that have been open at least a year rose 5 percent in January. All this despite the payroll tax hike.

So hang on... thanks to Obama, this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER, except for the economy, which seems to be recovering just fine?

That could only make sense to a complete lunatic.
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 07 Feb 2013, 19:26:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', 't')he Dow hit 14,000. Also, weekly applications for unemployment benefits fell 5,000, meaning that companies continue to hire at a steady pace. And retail sales at stores that have been open at least a year rose 5 percent in January. All this despite the payroll tax hike.

So hang on... this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER, except for the economy, which seems to be recovering just fine?


Actually, the economy shrunk in Q4 2012 and unemployment has just ticked back up to 7.9%. Increasing unemployment and shrinking economic activity are not usually thought to be signs of a great economy.

The facts are clear---when the pace of GDP increases since the current recovery began in 2009 are plotted against other recent recoveries, including the recovery after the 1929 collapse in the great depression, the current recovery is the weakest, i.e. it is the WORST RECOVERY EVER.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '.')..blame Obama ....
.

Personally I think the sluggish recovery is mainly due to high energy prices, with poorly designed government policies also playing a role

I'm happy that you think Obama is doing such a great job, but Obama himself has said he should be held responsible for the shortfalls in the economy. I'll trust Obama on this one over you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '.')..complete lunatic.


Your posts are rather wacked out, but I've just assumed you can't hold your beer. But since you are a complete lunatic, then perhaps beer is the way you try to disguise your mental impairments? :roll:
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby SamInNebraska » Thu 07 Feb 2013, 21:58:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')Anyway, people are moving to another state for those oil field jobs. People are arriving in droves everyday. So much so that it is straining the local resources. I'm not sure where you got the idea that no one is moving to get a job.


10,000's of help wanted ads in North Dakota, MILLIONS of unemployed Americans. "Droves" apparently means.....not all that many in the scheme of things. Or Americans are just waiting for their unemployment to run out prior to actually considering real work.
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 08 Feb 2013, 14:20:12

Revision to the terrible Q4 2012 -.1% GDP negative growth rate should be coming from DC pretty soon. With any luck, it will be revised up so at least some positive growth will be recorded. Even so, we'd need to see 10% GDP growth to get back above the post-1929 GDP trend, and this is highly unlikely. No matter what the revision, we are still in the WORST RECOVERY EVER. 8)

The worst recovery ever gets even worse
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Buddy_J » Fri 08 Feb 2013, 20:17:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SamInNebraska', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')Anyway, people are moving to another state for those oil field jobs. People are arriving in droves everyday. So much so that it is straining the local resources. I'm not sure where you got the idea that no one is moving to get a job.


10,000's of help wanted ads in North Dakota, MILLIONS of unemployed Americans. "Droves" apparently means.....not all that many in the scheme of things. Or Americans are just waiting for their unemployment to run out prior to actually considering real work.


How mean! Also possibly true. Once the country was handed a socialist President for 2 terms, did you really expect something else?
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 08 Feb 2013, 22:31:00

Obama's payroll tax increase hitting working class and middle class folks hard

Payroll tax hike means everybody's income was cut by 2%--tax hike means working class folks have to make more sacrifices

Economists estimate Obama's new tax on working people will cut GDP growth by 0.5-1.0% going into 2013-----just what the US didn't need given the fact that we are already in the WORST RECOVERY EVER.

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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 07:53:31

Maybe, I'm wrong! But I thought that the best possible outcome would be a WORST RECOVERY EVER!
With persistently high fuel & food prices stifling traditional high growth, isn't this the best possible outcome.
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Loki » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:59:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', 'M')aybe, I'm wrong! But I thought that the best possible outcome would be a WORST RECOVERY EVER!
With persistently high fuel & food prices stifling traditional high growth, isn't this the best possible outcome.

I agree, it probably is the best case scenario.

How are things going in Eire?
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 13:53:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', 'M')aybe, I'm wrong! But I thought that the best possible outcome would be a WORST RECOVERY EVER!
With persistently high fuel & food prices stifling traditional high growth, isn't this the best possible outcome.

I agree, it probably is the best case scenario.

How are things going in Eire?

Still slowly sinking, but at a much slower rate than over the past few years, house building is at its lowest level since the 1970s, car sales are still declining, emigration is still exceeding immigration but unemployment has stopped rising.

More retailers are closing down, mainly due to being charged "Celtic Tiger" rates while not having the turnover to justify such rates, several UK based retailers are simply pulling out unless the rents are dropped, we will soon see a showdown between the landlords and the retailers.

Only good news on the horizon has been the replacement of a crippling short term loan with a not so crippling long term loan, the bank bail out "promissory note".

Consumption of everything is still falling!
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Loki » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 16:38:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '
')Still slowly sinking, but at a much slower rate than over the past few years, house building is at its lowest level since the 1970s, car sales are still declining, emigration is still exceeding immigration but unemployment has stopped rising.

More retailers are closing down, mainly due to being charged "Celtic Tiger" rates while not having the turnover to justify such rates, several UK based retailers are simply pulling out unless the rents are dropped, we will soon see a showdown between the landlords and the retailers.

Only good news on the horizon has been the replacement of a crippling short term loan with a not so crippling long term loan, the bank bail out "promissory note".

Consumption of everything is still falling!


The Google machine says Ireland's unemployment rate is holding steady at 14.6%, though it'd be closer to 20% without emigration. Damn high by US standards, but not quite a Mad Max level of social collapse. Do you know if that includes “discouraged workers,” i.e., people who have dropped out of the labor force?

Our official unemployment rate (U-3) here in the US is 7.9%, but if you include the “marginally attached” and account for the decline in the labor force participation rate, it's probably closer to 10.5%. About what it was during the "good years" of the Great Depression. We seem to have plateaued at a new normal, though I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. The fact that the media is still talking about the “recovery” shows how fragile the economy is.

When the GOP takes over Congress in 2014 I think we'll see Euro-style austerity wipe out any gains that have been made and it'll be back to freefall and massive private deleveraging. Which is just as well, the “recovery” won't be sustainable until this bad private debt is purged. Another 20+ years of a shit economy and we'll be right as rain :) Of course by then we'll have a full-blown case of the peak oilies, so maybe add another 50 years of shit economy. And of course by then we'll have a full-blown case of the climate changies, so add another 5,000 years to that......

Interesting times, huh?
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby kublikhan » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 02:23:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SamInNebraska', '1')0,000's of help wanted ads in North Dakota, MILLIONS of unemployed Americans. "Droves" apparently means.....not all that many in the scheme of things. Or Americans are just waiting for their unemployment to run out prior to actually considering real work.
No. "Droves" apparently means: So many people showing up that the local infrastructure is completely overwhelmed. There's not enough housing. Emergency services are overloaded. Same with electrical, sewage, water, etc. I know this doesn't fit well with your "all unemployed people = lazy shiftless bums" philosophy but that's life. It is often more complicated than fortune cookie wisdom and shoeboxing people into stereotypes. Sometimes slowing down and letting infrastructure catch up is the right call.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he gravel road that borders Dave Hynek’s North Dakota farm is designed to carry 10 tractor- trailer trucks a day. In a recent 24-hour period, about 800 passed by.

The oil boom fueling the nation’s lowest unemployment rate also has a dark side. It’s pushing rural North Dakota’s housing, electric, water, police and emergency services to the breaking point. “It’s absolutely destroying our infrastructure,” said Hynek, a Mountrail County commissioner.

‘Now It’s Dangerous’
“There were three rapes here last summer -- that’s in a town with one assault in its history,” said Cory Rice, who bought the restaurant from his grandparents. “It used to be a quiet community. Now it’s dangerous.” “Do we risk getting injured and stay here and make money? Or do we go back home and do with less and be safe?”

The state’s three-year-old boom, which attracted thousands of workers to 17 western counties, is progressing so quickly that studies commissioned to determine infrastructure needs are outdated the moment they leave the printer.

‘Population Explosion’
“It’s almost an unmanageable population explosion,” said Vicky Steiner, a Republican state legislator. Williams and Mountrail counties recently banned construction of “man camps” -- temporary developments for oil workers -- until they can expand sewer, electrical and water systems.

The move put pressure on an already tight housing market, where rents for a two-bedroom without utilities skyrocketed from $350 a month to $2,000. Some workers report paying $4,000 a month for a three-bedroom apartment in Williston.

“Economic opportunity brings growing pains and changes to a very rural area that hasn’t seen significant economic opportunity for decades,” Ness said. “It’s difficult, certainly, for any of us to keep up with the pace at which people are moving here.”

“We have 800 wells -- they tell me there’s going to be 6,000 more in five years,” Hynek said. “It scares the hell out of me. They say you’d better get prepared for 50,000 more people.”
North Dakota Oil Boom Brings Blight With Growth as Costs Soar
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Beery1 » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 10:49:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')We have 800 wells -- they tell me there’s going to be 6,000 more in five years,” Hynek said. “It scares the hell out of me. They say you’d better get prepared for 50,000 more people.”


And that's only half the problem they're going to face. Boomtowns have a habit of becoming ghost towns. If they think building infrastructure for 50,000 more people is scary, then I think scaling down from 50,000 back to a handful is scarier. We're talking the kinds of problems that Old West towns like Tascosa and Bodie faced, only now we're not talking gold or cattle - we're talking shale oil, and this time it won't play out over a few decades - it will take place over just a few years.
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 15:27:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou liberals need to be careful.... Planty claims the bad economic news is Obama's fault. You need to argue peak oil==bad economic news. You will never ever ever disprove the bad economic news is Obama's fault. That would be a logical fallacy, disproving the null is not possible.


Looks like we agree on something, pstarrie. I've been saying for years that the 2008 collapse and the WORST RECOVERY EVER since then are caused by high energy prices and peak oil.

PS: I"ve explained this to you several times before---Your reading comprehension skills must be unusually low ----
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 15:55:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', ' ')shale oil, and this time it won't play out over a few decades - it will take place over just a few years.


If you really think shale oil is going to die out in a few years, then you should go short on the stocks of companies who do frak shale to produce oil---you'll make millions if you are right and in just a few years these companies are no longer able to produce shale oil. 8)
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Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 16:08:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')Plant. You came here as a blah blah blah


You are a liar and a dope. :roll:
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