[Plantagenet]

For years posters at peakoil.com have been battling over whether or not we are headed back into a double dip recession. Its been a great debate, but it completely misses the point.

The problem we face is not whether or not we have a double-dip------the real economic problem is that this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Thats why there are no jobs and salaries keep going down and food stamp use keeps hitting new record highs and nine million fewer people have jobs then before the recovery began......

[mmasters]

it's better than the great depression

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '.')..the real economic problem is that this is the WORST RECOVERY EVER...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'i')t's better than the great depression

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'P')lant, you forgot Obama!

[peripato]

It is the worst recovery money can buy.

[AgentR11]

Plant, you're making a big assumption here. And that is that there is a recovery underway at all. There is not.

All we really have is a very gentle, very, very long duration depression, a situation where the currency managers finally have tools that are faster than the proverbial "run on the bank".

Basically the system is running as an "expansion", but only in the sense that the economy is expressed in more dollars now, than in 2009; even though now, in every measure that would count, expressed in fuel, its shrinking, expressed in grain, its shrinking, expressed in eggs its shrinking, expressed in bread its shrinking. So we have a long term, continuously shrinking economy, expressed in an increasing quantity of dollars, supported by government policy that crushes the ability of interest rates to react to decreasing, per dollar, purchasing power.

It is the Eternal Recession, and there is no "end" or "recovery" possible.

It is the end of Real Growth.

And it is the solution to resource constraints and carbon emissions. (to bad its too late).

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'P')lant, you're making a big assumption here. And that is that there is a recovery underway at all. There is not.

All we really have is a very gentle, very, very long duration depression, a situation where the currency managers finally have tools that are faster than the proverbial "run on the bank".

Basically the system is running as an "expansion", but only in the sense that the economy is expressed in more dollars now, than in 2009; even though now, in every measure that would count, expressed in fuel, its shrinking, expressed in grain, its shrinking, expressed in eggs its shrinking, expressed in bread its shrinking. So we have a long term, continuously shrinking economy, expressed in an increasing quantity of dollars, supported by government policy that crushes the ability of interest rates to react to decreasing, per dollar, purchasing power.

It is the Eternal Recession, and there is no "end" or "recovery" possible.

It is the end of Real Growth.

And it is the solution to resource constraints and carbon emissions. (to bad its too late).

[Satori]

there is no recovery
especially if you look at the real # 's
and not the B.S. the government is putting out

we're well into "the long emergency"

it ain't gonna get any better

party's over
time to pay up

[Ibon]

There is a metaphor here at Mount Totumas, an ancient emergent old growth tree, 180 feet tall, massive, like a statue, a skeleton of hardwood from the trunk to the tree top where only a couple of small branches still bear leaves. There is a ribbon of living cambrian tissue where life holds on tenuously. There is no more growth, but yet still lives, still majestic, still evoking a sense of awe and wonder.

Why cant our modern world in this long descent resemble this tree, growth a mimumum of a few branches while it still holds itself in majesty? Why do we perpetually see this long descent as a loss?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'P')lant, you're making a big assumption here. And that is that there is a recovery underway at all.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'P')lant, you're making a big assumption here. And that is that there is a recovery underway at all.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')n 1929 people lost their jobs and stood in breadlines. In 2008 people lost their jobs and went on unemployment, foodstamps, and disability

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')'m not making any kind of assumption at all---its a simple fact. The Federal Reserve collects reams of data on the economy...

[Ibon]

This is all real time adaptation happening before our eyes. What we have always anticipated. Is this a problem? How else do we move culture away from entitlements and exceptionalism. How else do we bring back a defense of the commons and the local against the corporate welfare state? The adaptation really does not ride on any ideology. It stings where ever you find yourself leaning politically. As it should.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', ' ')You are accepting the evaluation of GDP from the people that are also controlling the GDP. That's like asking a seventh grader to write a research paper, and have them grade it themselves to their own standards.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')his is all real time adaptation happening before our eyes. What we have always anticipated.

[Satori]

I trust the Fed's data collection and interpretation
about as much as I believe the OFFICIAL government figures
for the unemployment rate and inflation

governments lie
that is what they do

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-2 ... here-it-tr

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-2 ... diocletian’s-book

[Plantagenet]

CBS news began the nightly news with anchorman Scott Pelley announcing portentously "THis is the worst economic recovery America has ever had.....

CBS evening news: "This is the worst economic recovery America has ever had

Good to see the MSM reporting honestly on the crappy recovery .....