[Durban]

Latest news from CNN Money - Gas Pains.

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/gasprices/

After having read the article I am really wondering WHEN people finally connect all dots to see the bigger picture?

The Netherlands Central Bank also just announced a much lower economic growth (0.4% for NL) for 2005 and expects some major shocks and changes in the world (they just forgot to mention what, when, where and how).

Well...I guess I will wait some more.... and yes.. I am fairly new here and I am glad I found this message board!

[Taskforce_Unity]

Yeah another dutchie! Anyway did you see www.peakoil.nl yet or http://members.home.nl/johnmeilink/ (peak oil alert)

(some propaganda every day is good for you )

>After having read the article I am really wondering WHEN people finally >connect all dots to see the bigger picture?

When the prices are high enough, they are without work and its on the national television

>The Netherlands Central Bank also just announced a much lower >economic growth (0.4% for NL) for 2005 and expects some major >shocks and changes in the world (they just forgot to mention what, >when, where and how).

I missed that one, do you have a weblink???

[savethehumans]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')fter having read the article I am really wondering WHEN people finally connect all dots to see the bigger picture?

[linlithgowoil]

the main problem with people, in my experience, is that most of them don't think medium-long term and, in fact, they go out of their way NOT to think medium-long term because if they did, they'd be less happy than they are now, and because most people see the goal of life to be happy, then they shut the future out.

also - telling someone that every government body in the world, and all economists are 100% wrong on the supply of oil simply does not work. Unbelievably, most people put 100% faith in the government and expect them to make everything ok. Tell them that their government doesn't have a clue what to do and may very well start to fall apart, and they won't like it.

They'll resort to calling you a nutter, and slip comfortably back into their dream like trance.

[MJ]

I agree. Most of the people do not want to hear, or fully comprehend a situation like this.
Look at what happened in the years preceding WWII. There were few people who saw it coming, though the proverbial writing was on the wall. Even when deported into ghetto's, most of the people there did not fully realise they were actually being lined up for destruction.

All you have to do is try to raise awareness on someone, and chances are you will know immediately why they refuse or cannot see the bigger picture.

[linlithgowoil]

talking of WWII there are still germans who deny the holocaust even happened - a very good example of people simply shutting out facts that they dont like.

it seems as though the human mind doesnt react well to knowing or thinking about the future though. i know that i am constantly thinking of the future and it pisses my wife off. she is a very happy person generally, which is one reason why i love her, but she is also the type of person that doesnt really think much past tomorrow and maybe this is why she is pretty happy. she generally thinks of the little things, such as 'we need to buy milk and nappies for the children tomorrow', or 'im meeting my mum for coffee tomorrow' - day to day things like that. she simply does not think about the big picture and when she does, she gets depressed, so she shuts it out. perfect example.!

[MD]

"eat, drink, and be happy, for tomorrow we die"

[Revi]

I have been a bit depressed lately, and I can trace it directly to peak oil. Every time I listen to the news I can see the peak oil behind it. The President of Bolivia stepping down - natural gas, the G-8 meeting - discussing peak oil? etc, etc, etc. It seems like a lot of current events are about peak oil, or traceable to it.

I almost wish I didn't know. I sometimes wish I was still in the concensus trance and didn't worry about tomorrow. Unfortunately, I am wired this way and I see it coming. My constant worry is when. Oh, well, you make your plans and you hope they will work out.

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '"')eat, drink, and be happy, for tomorrow we die"

[Durban]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') have been a bit depressed lately, and I can trace it directly to peak oil. Every time I listen to the news I can see the peak oil behind it. The President of Bolivia stepping down - natural gas, the G-8 meeting - discussing peak oil? etc, etc, etc. It seems like a lot of current events are about peak oil, or traceable to it.

I almost wish I didn't know. I sometimes wish I was still in the concensus trance and didn't worry about tomorrow. Unfortunately, I am wired this way and I see it coming. My constant worry is when. Oh, well, you make your plans and you hope they will work out.

[retiredguy]

Speaking of people and long-term thinking...

Just read a study that discovered 58% of the people aged 55-59 had less than $10,000 saved for retirement. Yet the majority of these folks believe that they will be able to retire and live comfortably.

Denial is a realllllly big river. Apply this to the PO issue and one can see that there are going to be huge problems.

[MJ]

I see no need to be depressed really. I cant stress it enough, it is not a given fact that PO will lead humanity into a worst case doom scenario and wreak havoc upon us.
I try to keep a balanced, yet open view about things. If you're willing to accept the doom theory (which sometimes seems to be a "wishfull thinking" prophecy to some people on the board here) you have to at least consider the possibility we will cope with it, and make a bumpy - yet still quite comfortable - transition to a more sustainable world.

Fact remains, nobody knows what exactly the outcome will be, so there's no point in worrying about a future you

- cannot foresee nor control or manipulate
- and even if you knew the future and prepared for it: things almost always have a tendency to play out differently than anticipated.

Carpe diem my friend!

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', ' ')i know that i am constantly thinking of the future and it pisses my wife off. she simply does not think about the big picture and when she does, she gets depressed, so she shuts it out. perfect example.!

[Revi]

Thanks! I find that I am trying to keep focused on the solution and not just the problem. We are working on solar and renewable solutions. The power went out the other day and we were the only ones in the neighborhood with the lights still on. A funny feeling. I felt a bit better about things after that.

Maybe it won't be so bad after all. You are right, the future is unpredictable. We all have to live like they do in the rest of the world. (I lived in Guatemala for a few years) You have to make plans and then have faith that they will work out, and if they don't it wasn't meant to be. Who knows what could happen in our lifetime? It is all very entertaining anyway. Peak oil seems to be a key that allows us to understand what is going on.

[jimmydean]

Most people like to ignore bad news.

In general just think how unpopular you would be at a party discussing peak oil and coming economic crunches versus talking about the next next bull market or how much you made the past few years flipping houses

FWIH messengers that brought bad news were killed in the good old days.

[Armageddon]

Gods word says in 2 timothy chap 3 : 1-5 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away


we are definately living in these critical times. almost 60 % of the population in the u.s. takes some type of anti depression medicine. and peak oil doesnt help matters.

[Waterthrush]

I was puzzled as well as to why people are not yet concerned. I've asked several acquaintances whether the higher gas prices have made any changes in their driving or budgets. So far, most have said no - an assistant working with me on a project actually said she just always used the charge card and never paid attention. Maybe she has more money than I!

But, this Reuters/MSNBC article has part of the answer, buried deep: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8146652/ It says that for the average US driver, gas costs have increased only $5/week in the past year. I'm not sure I believe that, but if it's true, it certainly reveals how most people could avoid thinking about it.

I blame our current political leadership for NOT leading on this issue. Why should the general population pay attention when their leaders all say there is no problem, when the energy industry says that gas supplies are "plentiful," and when anyone who says otherwise is derided? Jimmy Carter made issues of energy and conservation central to his presidency - 1977 would have been a MUCH better time to prepare than 2005. Walter Mondale proposed a .50 tax on gasoline to fund mass transportation, conservation, and research. Al Gore accurately predicted the future of oil-based transportation in 1992. In each case these politicians were not only opposed, but ridiculed, by their political opponents. And the voters joined in. And so here we are, barely any politician dares to bring the subject up. We should reward and support those who do.

Interestingly, I find that most people DO accept the concept of peak oil. They just feel that nothing they can do will make a difference, they have accepted the compulsive business of their lives as normal, and they never have time for the slow process of critical thinking and debate. It sounds as though people here DO talk through issues with their SOs, but I wonder how common that is? Does anyone ever pass an evening with neighbors talking about current affairs?

[Grimnir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('armegeddon', 'F')or men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power

[Revi]

The whining will commence next fall when people go to fill up their oil tanks. The price has gone up by 1/3 already. It may be more next fall. The average person has to come up with over $2000 to pre-buy. It hurts a bit when gasoline goes up, but it's 2 or 4 dollars more a fill up. This fall the real hurt begins. It hurt us, but we pre-bought. We only used 346 gallons last winter, so we only had to come up with around $750, but we have a small house and heat half with wood. It's going to hurt this year. And LIHEAP has been cut drastically. Will people get it then? I think so, but will they connect it to action? Insulate, Conservation, Efficiency.