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What comes after oil?

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Unread postby TheTurtle » Mon 06 Jun 2005, 20:10:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'I') fear for the forests, if thousands if not millions of people revert to wood burning to heat their homes.


And if the forests go, what then will become of the temporarily warmed people? :cry:
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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 06 Jun 2005, 20:23:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'A')nd if the forests go, what then will become of the temporarily warmed people? :cry:


They will die of course. But they will leave behind nifty statues. :-D
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Unread postby pea-jay » Mon 06 Jun 2005, 20:38:22

With the advent of thermal depolymerization an effective oil replacement would be oil generated from...people.

Just think about it. An average 38 lbs of oil per 175 lb person
THen there is the added bonus of the removal of surplus population above the planets carrying capacity.

Lets use an average global weight of 135 lbs equalling 29.3 lbs of oil multiplied agains 5 billion surplus people = 418,571,428 million barrels. (350 lbs per barrel)

418Million barrels is not a huge number, with only a billion folks on the planet, consumption rates would decline.

Add in our pets and livestock and we could get up to a billion barrels.
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Consiquence...

Unread postby DavidProvost » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 07:31:57

So why isn't any body doing anything about it than?
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Unread postby Raxozanne » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 07:57:46

Because really doing something about it would involve changing our way of life in a big way and no government wants to do that.

Plus the economy relys on us buying ever more consumer crap and that crap takes a lot of oil to make. Also transportation is a no-touch subject.
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Re: What comes after oil?

Unread postby Aaron » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 08:09:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidProvost', 'W')hat resources can take the place of oil? Once all the oil is gone whats the world gona run on?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat comes after oil?


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Re: Consiquence...

Unread postby DriveElectric » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 08:13:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidProvost', 'S')o why isn't any body doing anything about it than?


thermal depolymerization? The lawsuits and legal liability of using people for oil would get tricky. Possible prosecution for "crimes against humanity" (whatever that means).
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Unread postby DriveElectric » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 08:14:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'A')lso transportation is a no-touch subject.


For who?
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Re: What comes after oil?

Unread postby BiGG » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 09:00:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
Pain


What? Your electric/ethanol/biodiesel/hydrogen car wouldn’t be anymore painful than your current gas/diesel ride anymore than it will be painful to heat & air-condition your house & business with electric supplemented geothermal source based systems. Plus, you will have less health problems & be able to breathe better!
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 09:24:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'A')lso transportation is a no-touch subject.


For who?
Everyone. When's the last time you heard anybody speaking up for a massive investment in rail infrastructure?

The biggest push is going to be "clean coal" (perhaps the single most Orwellian term I've ever experienced). There's nothing clean about coal, we'll bake the planet trying to hold on to our way of life. We'd rather reduce WVA, VA, PA, KY, and the other Eastern mountain states to heavy metal leeching plateaus and permanently ruin our waterways than give up our easy motoring and air conditioning.

There's a lot of coal in the Appalachians. Too bad you have to completely destroy the ecosystem in order to get to it. Problem is people don't think of wastelands that used to be mountains when they flick on a lightswitch.
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Unread postby Vexed » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 19:03:39

DavidProvost wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat resources can take the place of oil? Once all the oil is gone whats the world gona run on?


I think we have all missed the obvious answer. Shame on us. 8)

We simply harness all the hot air that is being released into the atmosphere concerning the subject of natural resource depletion, both the gack released by our governments and our own endless ramblings.

Sound tough? Not really.

If we poised a giant vacuum intake system over all political offices, and mini-vacuums above the monitors of the most ubiquitous posters, I believe that the amount of wasted energy would be enough to power a pretty decent sized grid.

Can you imagine a poorly-argued 16 page thread on the merits of alternative energy actually powering your dishwasher?

Now that's vision! :-D
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Re: What comes after oil?

Unread postby Omnitir » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 20:12:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
Pain


What? Your electric/ethanol/biodiesel/hydrogen car wouldn’t be anymore painful than your current gas/diesel ride anymore than it will be painful to heat & air-condition your house & business with electric supplemented geothermal source based systems. Plus, you will have less health problems & be able to breathe better!


Your missing the BiGG picture. It’s not the end result of a new economy after the oil economy dies that will be painful; it’s the transition to that new economy that will be painful. Extremely painful, like billions of deaths painful.

Yes, the next stage will be good. No, the transition to that stage will not be easy and painless.

But a hope I'm wrong and your right, and the transition will be as smooth as Swiss clockwork. I truely do. But it just doesnt seem realistic.
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Re: What comes after oil?

Unread postby 0mar » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 21:57:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
Pain


What? Your electric/ethanol/biodiesel/hydrogen car wouldn’t be anymore painful than your current gas/diesel ride anymore than it will be painful to heat & air-condition your house & business with electric supplemented geothermal source based systems. Plus, you will have less health problems & be able to breathe better!


All those alternatives still don't measure up to oil. Simple as that.
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Re: What comes after oil?

Unread postby MonteQuest » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 00:32:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidProvost', 'W')hat resources can take the place of oil? Once all the oil is gone whats the world gona run on?


The only viable, readily accessible source of energy in the near future is the American standard of living. Period.
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Re: Consiquence...

Unread postby MonteQuest » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 00:33:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidProvost', 'S')o why isn't any body doing anything about it then?


Cultural direction and asset inertia.
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please explain

Unread postby Cool Hand Linc » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 00:45:10

Monte, Can you explain this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he only viable, readily accessible source of energy in the near future is the American standard of living. Period.
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Unread postby rowante » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 05:18:39

Simple Linc, energy will be saved for other purposes by reducing the living standards of the population. This could be achieved in various ways from free-market solutions to direct government intervention. Either way, with your service based economy it's not going to be pretty. The only real long term solution will be to reduce population to increase energy per capita.

You will have to provide better access to sex education, contraception and abortion. That could be pretty difficult in the U.S.A. with all those pro-lifers and Christian fundies. You will also have to get pretty strict on immigration as well, that's going to piss off the lefties.

You can talk about the environment and peak oil till your blue in the face but really the problem is population. As everybody's favourite professor, Albert Bartlett asserts, choose how you reduce your population or nature will do it for you.
Last edited by rowante on Fri 10 Jun 2005, 01:35:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: please explain

Unread postby MonteQuest » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 09:29:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cool Hand Linc', 'M')onte, Can you explain this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he only viable, readily accessible source of energy in the near future is the American standard of living. Period.


Simple. We consume so much energy to support our lifestyle that the lowering of our standard of living will free up enormous amounts of energy, not just through efficiency and conservation, but through the outright elimnation of many aspects of our consumptive society.

Again, a short-term solution as sheer population growth will consume up all that we free up quite readily. Back to population reduction being part and parcel to any energy solution to peak oil.

{edit: I hadn't read rowante's response until I had already posted. Guess we are on the same page with a very similar response.}
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Re: please explain

Unread postby TheTurtle » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 09:41:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')gain, a short-term solution as sheer population growth will consume up all that we free up quite readily. Back to population reduction being part and parcel to any energy solution to peak oil.


And don't forget that the Chinese are enthusiastically making great strides to take our place as primary conspicuous consumers. :cry:
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Energy and people

Unread postby Optimist » Thu 09 Jun 2005, 13:04:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he only real long term solution will be to reduce population to increase energy per capita.

You could also go the other way and simply use energy more wisely so that everybody uses less energy per capita.

The high oil prices of the last several months is already doing it. While some are hurting (Ford and GM) the population at large is simply adjusting to the new reality.

Trust the markets to do it. We could all be more energy efficient, but most would only do it when it makes cent$.
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