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THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby dolanbaker » Fri 16 Nov 2012, 20:37:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')aybe they are vanity big rigs for the 1%?


According to the article it says that they're buying the trucks for the construction industry. Wait, so you folks over in America are having another debt-fueled housing boom ... again?


There must be a lot of old worn out pickups out there that need replacing!
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 17 Nov 2012, 11:37:19

Hostess decides to liquidate its business, 18,500 to be fired:

http://hostessbrands.info/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ostess, the makers of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder Bread, is going out of business after striking workers failed to heed a Thursday deadline to return to work, the company said.

“We deeply regret the necessity of today’s decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike,” Hostess CEO Gregory F. Rayburn said in announcing that the firm had filed a motion with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to shutter its business. “Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders.”


A decision not to negotiate with its unions and throw almost 20 thousand out of work borders on criminality. The owners and managers of this now defuct firm have chosen stupidity over reason.

A sad day for the world. (I liked twinkies and wonder bread)
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Sat 17 Nov 2012, 22:02:09

That's incredible.
They would rather shut down a rather substantial business than to at least talk things over with the workers?
Why??!

And a quick search brings up this :

americablog.com :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ostess Twinkies’ CEO tripled his salary to $2.55 million while the company was preparing to go into bankruptcy. And nine top executives saw massive pay raises, some nearly doubling their salary. Ah, another greedy CEO who courageously blamed the union for his failure, while omitting the part about tripling his own pay while preparing to go under. Damn unions, indeed.


Something stinks here and it's not an expired Twinkie.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 17 Nov 2012, 23:56:12

Imagine if every company in trouble did this. Shut down, fire everybody and liquidate all of the assets immediatly to the highest bidder.

There wouldn't be much of an economy left before long.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 18 Nov 2012, 00:19:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'H')ostess decides to liquidate its business, 18,500 to be fired:

http://hostessbrands.info/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ostess, the makers of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder Bread, is going out of business after striking workers failed to heed a Thursday deadline to return to work, the company said.

...

A decision not to negotiate with its unions and throw almost 20 thousand out of work borders on criminality. The owners and managers of this now defuct firm have chosen stupidity over reason.

A sad day for the world. (I liked twinkies and wonder bread)


Can you read, or is your pro-union bias so strong that you refuse to consider objective input? From the article you linked to in your post:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')"The BCTGM in September rejected a last, best and final offer from Hostess Brands designed to lower costs so that the Company could attract new financing and emerge from Chapter 11. Hostess Brands then received Court authority on Oct. 3 to unilaterally impose changes to the BCTGM’s collective bargaining agreements."


The BCGTM was one of MANY unions involved, and decided to be completely intransigent. Hostess had been losing hundreds of millions of dollars over years, and putting up with all sorts of silly inefficiencies about how workers can only do one thing, etc. that the unions forced on them. The costs were unmanageable. (Source - WSJ article today. (Although the opinion pages in the WSJ are incredibly right wing biased -- the actual investigative reporting is quite good, and generally only a little right of center, on average -- not skewed enough to distort the facts in the reporting)).

Another business destroyed by unions wanting something for nothing -- and of course it is all the company's fault. The list goes on. I guess next there will be an Obama bailout?

You know, no matter how fast you redistrubute hard earned wealth (and chase away productive results, one way or another) government can't magically produce prosperity.

But blame it all on the owners of businesses if that makes you feel better. Nothing produced equals starvation or death by exposure in the end, either way. The universe and the laws of nature simply don't care.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 18 Nov 2012, 01:01:37

There's something wrong with the current mindset of business.

A few years ago, the public phone utilitily, which had been a Crown corporation (in Canada), for decades, was privitized in keeping with the 'new' ideas of the time that privitization is somehow more efficient.

The new managers of this privatized company immediatly gave themselves huge pay increases, tripled monthly phone bills, reduced services, and laid off staff.

If this is progress, I'd hate to see decline!
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Lore » Sun 18 Nov 2012, 10:54:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'T')here's something wrong with the current mindset of business.

A few years ago, the public phone utilitily, which had been a Crown corporation (in Canada), for decades, was privitized in keeping with the 'new' ideas of the time that privitization is somehow more efficient.

The new managers of this privatized company immediatly gave themselves huge pay increases, tripled monthly phone bills, reduced services, and laid off staff.

If this is progress, I'd hate to see decline!


This has happened all over the US where States have allowed private interest to take over what was once public, nonprofit supported services. An example being State toll roads, where fees have quickly doubled with no apparent improvements or maintenance. Currently the push is on to privatize our national postal service. Which by the way already must support itself without taxpayer support.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby dolanbaker » Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:35:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'I')magine if every company in trouble did this. Shut down, fire everybody and liquidate all of the assets immediatly to the highest bidder.

There wouldn't be much of an economy left before long.

If the market is oversupplied, reducing the number of suppliers is one way of restoring the equilibrium, it would only continue until supply drops to reach demand.

It appears that more business people are coming to realise that the "end of growth" theory is real and they're using it to their advantage to offload surplus capacity (and blaming the unions for the demise of the business).

They're also offloading the debts as well.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 19 Nov 2012, 03:39:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')This has happened all over the US where States have allowed private interest to take over what was once public, nonprofit supported services. An example being State toll roads, where fees have quickly doubled with no apparent improvements or maintenance. Currently the push is on to privatize our national postal service. Which by the way already must support itself without taxpayer support.

Only a liberal who thinks everything must be subsidized for some imagined "good" would be upset that the USPS might be privatized and become more like, oh say, Fedex, UPS, or any of the other private carriers.

(By the way, the USPS is NOT supporting itself. It is in default on a huge loan from the Treasury, and at their debt limit. It looks like they will implode without some sort of congressional intervention.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/17/news/us ... index.html (and many more like this)
So far, from what I can see, the response is to have only one worker a lot, making lines of an hour or more except during the "busiest" hours. And from what I can tell, having the worst employee run the counter at those times. If they expect this to garner more business, they're even dumber than I thought).

In objective surveys on package delivery (where such outfits are allowed to compete), the USPS is FAR worse as far as on-time delivery and packages lost.

As an example - packages:

Unable to understand the bizarre randomness of my packages from the USPS, I tried asking management. What a joke. Every manager I talked to lied to me, promised to look into it and get back to me and then never called me (I have an answering machine on all the time). So much for management.

Then I befriended one of the better counter workers. When I explained I just wanted to UNDERSTAND the process and what was going on, and NOT get anyone in trouble -- she explained -- there are "sorting runs". Things get put into the wrong pile. Then they go to the wrong place (such as being returned instead of delivered).

So OK, human error happens. So good tracking should help with this. BUT:

For USPS tracked packages, there is NO WAY to ascertain where they are or what their status is while they are being delivered. For the private competitors, you can find out every time the status changes, via the web. For a really important package, you can call them and they can contact the driver.

I have had packages delivered to my PO box, and all too frequently no key in the box even though the package was supposedly delivered. Upon investigating with my delivery notice -- the key gets placed in the wrong box. (Luckily I've found out before stuff was stolen. I GOT (and paid for) a PO box since at my apartment key mail delivery was just a random number generator as far as what went to which apartment). When I investigated why this was happening I was told they did late shift "box filling runs" where everyone gets grabbed at end of shift, so people can go home. There are apparently a LOT of mistakes made when this happens.

I had so many packages come from the LOCAL Amazon warehouse to the post office less than a mile away and sit there (in some room) for 10 days, only to be returned to the shipper, or lost, or whatever, that I finally gave up and got Amazon Prime service -- just so UPS would actually deliver my packages.

So Lore, go ahead and cry over the post office. I'd strongly prefer to have some outfit like UPS or Fedex deliver ALL my mail RELIABLY and QUICKLY -- even if it costs me more. (And no, I don't think I should subsidize dirt cheap mail delivery to, say, folks who live in the Alaskan frontier), even when you and/or they claim they "need it".
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Mon 19 Nov 2012, 07:40:18

Myself, I'd prefer to use USPS to ship stuff from US over back to Singapore here. Simply put they're cheaper than FedEx or UPS. But perhaps that's why they're having financial troubles. Or maybe it's just the same old story of pensions and retirement benefits. Anyway, they don't want to ship lithium-ion batteries though so that means folks have to pay more to FexEx or UPS to ship out most gadgets.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Lore » Mon 19 Nov 2012, 10:29:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'M')yself, I'd prefer to use USPS to ship stuff from US over back to Singapore here. Simply put they're cheaper than FedEx or UPS. But perhaps that's why they're having financial troubles. Or maybe it's just the same old story of pensions and retirement benefits. Anyway, they don't want to ship lithium-ion batteries though so that means folks have to pay more to FexEx or UPS to ship out most gadgets.


The USPS service problems are a result of two areas. One, the move to electronic email affecting revenue and advertising. Two, a Congressionally-mandated 10-year payment schedule at an average of about $5.5 billion per year to create a fund to pay future retiree health benefit premiums, among others. A move to drive them essentially out of business.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 09:01:13

news.yahoo.com

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')apan's Sharp, struggling with deep losses and searching for a financial savior, has cut short an early retirement program after being flooded with volunteers. The company said Tuesday that it ended the program after a week, having received 2,960 applicants, about 10% of its domestic workforce. The original plan was for the program to run for two weeks and target about 2,000.


Kind of sad that all they're looking forward to now are early retirement benefits.

And according to this, Sharp is the world's worst performing major company stock.

bloomberg.com :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')harp Corp, the world’s worst-performing major stock, will book a 25.3 billion yen ($311 million) one-time charge this quarter to eliminate jobs ... Sharp fell 1.7 percent to 172 yen in Tokyo trading today, extending its loss this year to 74 percent, the worst performer among more than 1,600 companies in the MSCI World Index (MXWO) of developed nations.


And this is the company that Apple wants to do business with instead of Samsung given that they aren't exactly best of buddies nowadays? One may hope, like current shareholders might, that Apple may be all that Sharp needs to pull itself out of the hole it is in. Or perhaps not.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Lore » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 10:08:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
So Lore, go ahead and cry over the post office. I'd strongly prefer to have some outfit like UPS or Fedex deliver ALL my mail RELIABLY and QUICKLY -- even if it costs me more. (And no, I don't think I should subsidize dirt cheap mail delivery to, say, folks who live in the Alaskan frontier), even when you and/or they claim they "need it".


What's laughable about you, is I hear you bitching about the anecdotal poor service you're receiving from the USPS, but still continue to use them. Why?

You're more than welcome to go ahead and use the alternatives right now.

While you're at it maybe you should also stay off the roads everyone subsidizes as well.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 18:40:12

m.yahoo.com

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he South Korean unit of General Motors Co plans to slash its headcount by launching a "voluntary retirement" scheme open to its 7,000 office workers, a company source told Reuters. The move is causing concerns about a restructuring at GM Korea, which is being squeezed by rivals Hyundai Motor Co and its affiliate Kia Motors Corp , as well as by imported vehicles from Germany, Japan and other countries.The South Korean market is shrinking due to the global economic slowdown and as heavy household debt cuts demand.


Not an entirely rosy picture for the automotive industry, is it? It's quite a statement that the Korean car market is shrinking though, and the part about heavy household debt.

I'd suppose Samsung's $7.4 billion quarterly profit couldn't pull up the entire country by itself.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 20:16:19

Image

news.yahoo.com :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')winkies, Ho Hos and Wonder Bread are up for sale now that a bankruptcy judge cleared the way for Hostess Brands Inc. to fire its 18,500 workers and wind down its operations. The snack maker's demise was years in the making. Management missteps, rising labor costs and changing tastes culminated in a crippling strike by The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union. Management had said Hostess was already operating on razor-thin margins and that the strike was the final blow. The union, meanwhile, pointed to the steep raises executives were given last year, as the company was spiraling down toward bankruptcy.


Last ditch efforts have failed, and now 18,500 jobs are gone just like that. Poof.

Image

Meanwhile, over here in Asia, we have our own local equivalent called Twiggies. Supposedly this one came from Malaysia, and it's sold in Singapore as well. Similar concept, slightly different name. My American friends might find these somewhat familiar ... :)
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 22 Nov 2012, 00:47:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
So Lore, go ahead and cry over the post office. I'd strongly prefer to have some outfit like UPS or Fedex deliver ALL my mail RELIABLY and QUICKLY -- even if it costs me more. (And no, I don't think I should subsidize dirt cheap mail delivery to, say, folks who live in the Alaskan frontier), even when you and/or they claim they "need it".


What's laughable about you, is I hear you bitching about the anecdotal poor service you're receiving from the USPS, but still continue to use them. Why?

You're more than welcome to go ahead and use the alternatives right now.

While you're at it maybe you should also stay off the roads everyone subsidizes as well.

Well Lore, thank you for such a "constructive" and useful response:

1). I continue to use the USPS because thanks to the idiot liberal congressm-folk people of your ilk elect, I don't have a reasonable alternative for mail. I mentioned this, but perhaps you have reading comprehension problems. As I said, I'd LIKE to have an alternative for my mail, even if it cost more.

2). I use the alternative whenever feasible, thank you very much. (Outfits I must deal with like the IRS, courts, government offices, utilities, and most businesses continue to use them -- so it's not like I have a lot of choice). Since you're suggesting alternatives -- how does that work exactly in your world?

3). I pay PLENTY of taxes, thank you very much, as the way I live I get almost no deductions. One of the main deductions I get is for charitable contributions. For all your left wing self righteousness, I give more to well-run charities and truly needy (say via medical disasters until SSI kicks in, which can take many moons) people than I spend on myself. Do you? If not, maybe YOU should refrain from idiotic suggestions/assumptions like whether I should be allowed to use roads.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Tata Steel: 600 Welsh jobs cut

Postby dolanbaker » Fri 23 Nov 2012, 07:57:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20461523

Tata Steel is cutting 900 jobs around the UK, including almost 600 jobs at plants in south Wales.

Most of the Welsh losses will be management and administrative posts in Port Talbot, with Llanwern, near Newport, also hit.

Other job cuts include 155 in Yorkshire, 120 in the West Midlands and 30 on Teesside.

Smaller Tata operations in Crosskeys, Caerphilly county, and one near Tredegar in Blaenau Gwent will close.

Shift levels at the company's Rotherham and Hartlepool plants will be reduced to match production to lower demand for bar products and pipelines.


Tata jobs
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Wed 28 Nov 2012, 00:38:37

news.yahoo.com :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')redit Suisse will cut about 100 investment banking jobs in Britain as part of its restructuring plans designed to find 4 billion Swiss francs (2.7 billion pounds) of savings by 2015, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday. The newspaper, citing a person familiar with the situation, said the job losses will occur over the next 90 days, mainly affecting the investment bank's equities, fixed income and advisory businesses.


Not that many jobs per se, but these sound like good jobs.
In a high-paying but volatile industry.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby lowem » Wed 28 Nov 2012, 00:45:44

news.discovery.com :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merican scientific research and development stands to lose thousands of jobs and face a starvation diet of reduced funding if politicians fail to compromise and halt the United States' march towards the fiscal cliff's sequestration of federal funds. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported 1,082,370 U.S. citizens employed in the life sciences, such as biology and genetics, as well as physical and social sciences. Of these, approximately 31,000 stand to lose their jobs if sequestration takes place ... these potential job losses represent approximately three percent of the total life, physical and social science jobs in the United States.


Bit of a chicken-and-egg thing isn't it? A good economy is required to support R&D jobs, and R&D is required to create new processes and technologies to help the economy. Nonetheless, 31,000 jobs no matter what industry, is still a big number.
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Re: THE Let the worldwide layoffs begin Thread pt 2 (merged)

Postby Tanada » Wed 28 Nov 2012, 09:35:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', '[')url=http://news.discovery.com/earth/science-funding-fiscal-cliff-economy-jobs-121125.html]news.discovery.com[/url] :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merican scientific research and development stands to lose thousands of jobs and face a starvation diet of reduced funding if politicians fail to compromise and halt the United States' march towards the fiscal cliff's sequestration of federal funds. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported 1,082,370 U.S. citizens employed in the life sciences, such as biology and genetics, as well as physical and social sciences. Of these, approximately 31,000 stand to lose their jobs if sequestration takes place ... these potential job losses represent approximately three percent of the total life, physical and social science jobs in the United States.


Bit of a chicken-and-egg thing isn't it? A good economy is required to support R&D jobs, and R&D is required to create new processes and technologies to help the economy. Nonetheless, 31,000 jobs no matter what industry, is still a big number.


I don't have a link to the story but I read this last summer that the big Pharmaceutical companies which do the bulk of new drug research are all winding down R&D and redirecting their funds to sales and new uses for existing drug formula's. The leaders of these companies feel they will no longer make a profit from new drugs so they best alternative is finding new uses for older drugs and sales push directly to the customers like you see the ED adds on TV all the time.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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