[ennui]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')We can't agree on anything. We make stupid choices in our own lives and value things that don't matter above the things that truly do. Its a circus; both in the Congress and on the streets. You cannot expect more from your government than We the People expect from ourselves. Before you make any attempt to fix the government, first fix yourself and your neighbor. In this country, the people get exactly what they want and deserve.

[Cloud9]

John,I am well aware of Lord Lyon’s threat of war over the Trent Affair and Lincoln’s comment regarding one war at a time. England had recognized the Confederacy as a belligerent. England’s upper class had a fondness for the southern aristocracy. Many southern families claimed aristocratic linage. These claims by the supposed second sons of the south lent an element of credence to British aristocratic claims of exceptionalism.

I won’t argue with you about Lincoln’s racism. That was evident in his early speeches about preserving the union. I will argue that emancipation was a potent weapon for the north and gained for Lincoln the upper hand in the battle for hearts and minds both in the north and in Britain. General Grant’s own appraisal of the emancipation of the slaves and the arming of slaves was that it was the heaviest blow yet given to the Confederacy. P.319 Reveille in Washington, Margaret Leech.

England had already abolished slavery in its empire in 1833. Despite the aristocratic fondness for the southern cause, the middle and lower classes would never support a war to protect slavery. The emancipation proclamation ended any possibility of English intervention in the war on behalf of the Confederacy.

[Cloud9]

I think it is a mistake to think in terms of Democrats and Republicans anymore. While both main parties would like to call themselves the party of Jefferson in that they took their names from his party, the truth is both parties are the left and right wings of the Federalist Party. Both clamor for government control and both have grown the size of government under their tenure. The Republicans have grown the government waving the flag of security and the Democrats have grown the government waving the flag of social justice. The bottom line is that now, the Government of the United States is the biggest and most powerful going concern in the U.S. and possibly the entire world. Nothing can compete with it.

The Federalist Party was a party of plutocrats. When they drew up the Constitution, they were confident that their wealth and power would enable them and their class to control the new government. That is why they saw no need for a bill of rights. Their class did not need these protections because their class controlled the government. It was the other less well franchised that feared the growth of the federal government and the centralization of power in the hands of the plutocrats. They were the ones that clamored for a check on the reach and power of this new government.

After the Constitutional Convention, the Constitution was published in its entirety in the nation’s newspapers. It was cussed and discussed in the boardrooms and bedrooms, tea houses and pubs of the nation. Two sides formed up. Those that favored the new system and those that were against it. Letters to the editors of those papers have been collected up and are called the Federalist and Antifederalist Papers. They are worth a read to get to the original thoughts of the founders.

The Federalists came to realize that they were never going to get the requisite nine states to ratify the Constitution unless they could gain the support of some of the Antifederalists. To do that, they reached a gentlemen’s agreement that if the Constitution was ratified, one of the first orders of the new congress would be to draft a bill of rights and amend the Constitution.

The Bill of Rights was the consideration given by the Federalists to the Antifederalists to get them to agree to our current government. Everyone who voted for NDAA violated his or her oath to protect the Constitution. The Constitution that was agreed upon that established this current government no longer exists.

The Federalists in their incessant efforts to increase their power created a myth early on that the Constitution was a living document that could be folded, spindled, wrapped and mutilated to support their ongoing agenda of centralized control. With the NDAA, the Federalists in both parties have successfully written the Bill of Rights out of the Constitution.

Consider this: When you have Alex Jones and the ACLU saying the same thing, it is probably true.

The nullification of the NDAA by these eleven counties is very similar to Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions that were sponsored by Jefferson and Madison. Many would argue that these resolutions were the first steps toward civil war.

The irony of all of this is that if there is ever going to be a civil war in this country it will not be over food or taxes or gasoline. People riot over food, taxes and gasoline. They wage wars over freedom. Ninety nine point nine percent of this country believes what they were taught in school. They believe they are protected under the Bill of Rights. We know that they are living under an illusion. When that illusion is shattered, there will be hell to pay. Obama signed into law a bill that gives some guy he does not know, some guy that he has never met, some guy who has not even been elected yet, the legal authority to disappear him and his family. While he was doing that, he did that for all of us. He did that for you Big Sis and all the uniformed minions that would seek to protect us. Under the NDAA, we all can be disappeared by future administrations.

[Pops]

Good points cloud, except, just like Matt, you first say that R vs D thinking is wrong then proceed to blame the NDAA and Obama when the underlying law is the 2001 AUMF under bush.

http://www.lawfareblog.com/category/aum ... and-reach/

[Cloud9]

Pops the bill was drawn up by John McCain. Of course the Republican Federalist worked hand and glove withe Democratic Federalist to draft and pass the NDAA. The Republicans were included in the part that mentioned every man and woman who signed the bill. There was no specific effort to single out your man. What these fools have created is very similar to to the laws passed by Hitler's crowd. They have given a tool to some future president that will allow him to kill his political opposition. When you stand back and look at it you must conclude that this bill is nuts.

[Pops]

And more...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/us/po ... wanted=all

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', ' ') The next time I see a Obama sign adjacent to an anti war sign I'm going to lose my mind.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')

Here's a tip, if you're going to go to all the trouble of typing a long post, do yourself a favor and put the fake youtube video link at the end because folks will stop reading as soon as they see it.

[Cloud9]

I have come to realize that we are tribal animals. We join tribes and we defend them right or wrong. We are Catholics or Protestants, Muslims or Christians, atheists or fundamentalists, Democrats or Republicans. This is a consequence of the simple fact that in moments of confusion, we are hard wire to default back to the group. We keep on voting the bastards in because they are our bastards. It is an irrational survival instinct that allows the, us versus them, paradigm to deprive us of our free will and relegate us to the position of team players. We follow those we would otherwise not follow because they are the leaders of our team.

I voted for Romney even though I despise him. I should have written in Ron Paul but given the choice of a Democrat versus a Republican, I defaulted to the position of team player. I am no better than the rest of you. I chose the team over principle. I won’t do that next time. I’m done with the team.

Having said that, all I can do is stand in amazement at the adroit maneuverings of the Chicago Machine that now runs the country. Think about it. They took those country bumpkins from Arkansas, wrapped them up in a pretty little box and left them in the parking lot. Seriously, when you have out slicked Slick Willie, you have elevated slime to a whole new level of viscosity.

Unless we find the will to break up the political class that runs Washington, we will continue down this course and the collapse will be managed by Marxists. The only other choice the politicos offered us was to have the collapse managed by fascists who were themselves run by the Banks. Either way it was going to be a totalitarian regime. That is why the Patriot Act and the NDAA were supported by both groups. Same tools, different team.

Obama is now in the position to fulfill the wishes of his acolytes and serve as America’s fourth great dictator. As individuals, all we can do is look to ourselves as the gangsta s**t Chris Rock promised us unfolds. Good luck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucdT7949LFc