[careinke]

I'm thinking the fiscal cliff may be the only thing that will save this country. I especially like the cuts.

[seahorse3]

I wish the 1% would move to anywhere. Maybe Liberia? Please take Rush with them. It is so bad here now, with Turban wearing, scycle carrying, socialists in charge, it's time for them to move out, go form another America, a true America, in greener pastures, from the ground up, with their own hands, their own labor, their own blood.

[Ibon]

I wont bother to look for the post but a couple of years ago I went into detail explaining politics in Brazil and how the US would eventually follow the same politics.....The disparity between rich and poor in Brazil and the large underclass disenfranchised forced the government to create a substantial social net that consumes a large percentage of their GDP. This had nothing to do with altruism and everything to do with preserving some semblance of an organized society. In other words the elite and rich in Brazil learned that to maintain their privilege they have to dedicate a large percentage of their GDP to the underclass otherwise crime and other social ills would overwhelm and keep the rich locked in their barb wire ghettos.

The elite in the USA will learn to do the same, Obama is not a whole lot different than Republicans, he just understands this reality better. The Republicans are stuck in a time warp group think that is racist, arrogant and completely out of sync with the pragmatic reality of maintaining social stability in times of a grand musical chairs that has to at least keep 3 legs on each chair.

The changing demographics is really the story here coupled with the growing number of disenfranchised of all ages, race and religions.

Ignoring this will make you obsolete.........

Karl Rove, Rush and friends look like big pink fat bald piggies and act the same. This last comment would have labeled me a racist a couple of years ago but today resonates with a growing number of Americans.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')he disparity between rich and poor in Brazil and the large underclass disenfranchised forced the government to create a substantial social net that consumes a large percentage of their GDP. This had nothing to do with altruism and everything to do with preserving some semblance of an organized society. In other words the elite and rich in Brazil learned that to maintain their privilege they have to dedicate a large percentage of their GDP to the underclass otherwise crime and other social ills would overwhelm and keep the rich locked in their barb wire ghettos.

The elite in the USA will learn to do the same, Obama is not a whole lot different than Republicans, he just understands this reality better.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', ' ')A better way to keep the poor happy (especially in the US) is to create jobs, give them gainful employment so that their children can be educated and they can see something in their future beyond the regular government handouts that you propose. Having a lower and middle class with extreme thoughts of entitlement doesn't seem to jive with the idea of a successful economy (i.e. why should I work hard or aspire to do something better when I'm going to get paid by the government anyway).

It is interesting to me reading the comments here that the vast majority of posters have very strong socialist beliefs.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'I')t is interesting to me reading the comments here that the vast majority of posters have very strong socialist beliefs.

[seahorse3]

The move to "socialism" in my opinion is directly attributed to expensive oil, the world dynamic shifting bc oil is expensive, thus the economic model is failing. If one believes in PO, then there will be less economic opportunity, more poor, more homeless, thus what to do with them? I don't think we can create more jobs in this new energy dynamic. How would we do it? What would the jobs be? Compound the problem of a global economic/financial model that can't be sustained with PO with the further problem that we simply don't need people to do most jobs anymore. People are being replaced by robots. So, what are people to do? The model will be changed. The current political, economic model will drastically change. In the meantime, Hobbes, the father of conservatism, would argue that you better appease the poor or they become unruly masses that start cutting heads off. Socialism is a far better protector of the rich than starving masses left to "fend for themselves." Those who want smaller government need only turn on tv today and watch the live riot feeds from Greece from lots of people out of work. That is our future until the economic model changes. I happen to agree with the writers of the book "The Fourth Turning" that basically conclude every fourth generation there is significant political change in the economic/political model. The US is a good guide for that. Every 100 years, approximately, from the Revolution on, there was significant political and social change, from 1776 to 1860 (Civil War) to the Great Depression and WWII (1940). Under that generational theory, the US is prime for another change. In the meantime, the US has "socialized" in an attempt to keep the economic model BAU.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')aving a lower and middle class with extreme thoughts of entitlement doesn't seem to jive with the idea of a successful economy (i.e. why should I work hard or aspire to do something better when I'm going to get paid by the government anyway).

[Ibon]

RockDoc,

I am really sorry, I think I accidentally deleted one of your posts. I wanted to comment on a part of your post and I accidentally deleted it and don't know how to retrieve this. This is an interesting stream of thought so please re introduce your point of view that might have been lost when I deleted your post.

Ibon

[Ibon]

RockDoc,

The point I wanted to make when I accidentally deleted your post was your examples of Cuba and Venezuela demonstrate your being stuck in an old binary cold war thinking of socialism vs capitalism. Both of those examples are fossils of exactly that old binary thinking. Brazil is a totally different example that pragmatically fuses free markets with dedicating a large portion of its GDP with maintaining social stability through providing social services. With its large ethnic diversity it does have some parallels to the US.

Obama is without doubt more tuned into the shifting demographics in the US. The Republicans will have to play catch up here. On the other hand Obama has to confront the fiscal realities of limited options and work within these limits.

Although I live in Panama and have lived over 3 decades outside of the US, I
happen to have a strong patriotic streak. I marvel at the dynamic of the rich ethnic diversity of the US and I embrace and welcome the demographic shift of the emerging voice of what were previously minorities. The Karl Roves out there are squirming. It's nice to see this segment of our society, often referred to as the Ugly Americans, slowly fossilizing into obsolescence.

Maybe because my own children are cultural and racial hybrids I do have a vested interest and bias

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'T')he move to "socialism" in my opinion is directly attributed to expensive oil, the world dynamic shifting bc oil is expensive, thus the economic model is failing. If one believes in PO, then there will be less economic opportunity, more poor, more homeless, thus what to do with them? I don't think we can create more jobs in this new energy dynamic. How would we do it? What would the jobs be? Compound the problem of a global economic/financial model that can't be sustained with PO with the further problem that we simply don't need people to do most jobs anymore. People are being replaced by robots. So, what are people to do?

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')ctually, taxes are set to drastically increase.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'A')gain, not living there so don't have a great understanding but it seems to me based on several comments here from Obama supporters, that side of America is interested in the free handouts without any compensatory suffering (i.e. hard work).

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')ctually, taxes are set to drastically increase.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')hank you for all hard work you have put into killing the GOP

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')eh, imaging that, a site centered on the idea of depletion and depredation of the "commons" that you'd find people more concerned with protection than it's exploitation.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')hank you for all hard work you have put into killing the GOP

[AgentR11]

My hunch on the demographic thing is that Latinos will eventually own the Republican party. If I were one to bet on things, I'd give good odds that the 2016 Republican nominee is a Spanish speaking Latino. This will take some time to work its way through to completion, but that's my hunch. I don't think the US political system is well equipped to have either party dissolve and form up a new one; nor is a shift to a sane parliamentary system realistic. So, the R's stay, and are consumed by the demographic least well served by the opposing party. In addition, I'd suspect more than a few slacker anglo will come to realize they are on the gov't feed for good, and start voting that way, thus a likely even split of anglo vote between R and D.

nb... I might be biased, I like Mexican culture a lot more than I like New England culture, and I just had to watch a moron from New England prance on TV for a year. I don't think I can take any more.

[Lore]

The problem with that is the actual latino vote and membership has been steadily growing during the last three national election cycles for the Dems. If any party gets consumed by the minority interest it is or will be the Democrats. Republicans would have to appease the fit with the Tea Party membership, which would be a real stretch for them.

Just placing a black man or latino in play for the Presidency to gain that demographic is tokenism and pretty easily smelled out.

I see a third party rising at some point too, but nothing we'd currently recognize.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'I') see a third party rising at some point too, but nothing we'd currently recognize.