Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 09:04:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think is a shame is that kids don't feel the responsibility to take care of their parents but still complain the state is "taking" their inheritance when what actually happened was the state assumed their responsibility.

It's too bad they don't have money for college, but it's also too bad the grandparents had to rely on the state to take care of them.
As I understand it, they way the law is written, any Medicaid outlays for any reason are up for grabs in the state wants them. You could be taking care of your parents in your own home. But your parents still have those expensive cancer treatments they are getting through Medicaid. The state could demand all outlays for that treatment come from the estate.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')OW MUCH IS SUBJECT TO RECOVERY?
At a minimum, states must recover amounts spent by Medicaid for long-term care and related drug and hospital benefits, including Medicaid payments for Medicare cost sharing related to these services. However, they have the option of recovering the costs of all Medicaid services paid on the recipient’s behalf."


Also, it's not just a matter of responsibility. Today's world is different than yesterdays. There used to be a fulltime care giver in the home. Now increasingly homes have both spouses working. That full time care giver who could take care of elderly parents is not there anymore. Also, people are living longer and dying slower. Back in the old days, only 1 in 10 made it past 65. Now 80% of us do. That means more care is needed for these people.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ACT: People are living longer and are dying much slower. In frontier North America, one out of every 10 people lived to age 65. Today, 80 percent of U.S. citizens will live past age 65. In 1990, 54,000 U.S. citizens were older than 100. That number doubled in 2000.1 As of late 2002, more than 12 million U.S. citizens were receiving some form of long-term care, of which 40 percent were working age adults. In Canada, it was estimated in 2001 that 3.92 million were 65 or older – two-thirds more than in 1981
Living Longer, Dying Slower

So we have more people reaching old age and needing care at the same time that the traditional care giver has left that role and joined the workforce long ago. All of the responsibility in the world does not change this situation.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 09:05:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')TOH, inheritance is not something that anyone should expect, IMO.


Tell that to wealthy ppl who set up trusts that last for many generations.
vision-master
 

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 09:28:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')TOH, inheritance is not something that anyone should expect, IMO.
Tell that to wealthy ppl who set up trusts that last for many generations.
+1
The wealthy pass on exorbitant amounts of wealth via trusts. Whereas the Medicaid Estate Recover Act traps poor people in a cycle of poverty. I don't see anything wrong with passing down wealth to the next generation, in the hopes that they can build a better life for themselves and their children.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he inheritance of land, property and other assets and resources appears to break poverty cycles and interrupt the intergenerational transmission of poverty
Exploratory research on Inheritance
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 09:42:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')TOH, inheritance is not something that anyone should expect, IMO.
Tell that to wealthy ppl who set up trusts that last for many generations.
+1
The wealthy pass on exorbitant amounts of wealth via trusts. Whereas the Medicaid Estate Recover Act traps poor people in a cycle of poverty. I don't see anything wrong with passing down wealth to the next generation, in the hopes that they can build a better life for themselves and their children.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he inheritance of land, property and other assets and resources appears to break poverty cycles and interrupt the intergenerational transmission of poverty
Exploratory research on Inheritance



Example:

Generation-Skipping Tax (GST)

People can give property directly to their grandchildren and keep the property out of their children's taxable estates. Because of this Congress enacted the generation-skipping tax on lifetime or death gifts which skip a generation. Here is a $5,000,000 exemption. Married couples can treat a transfer as made by one-half by each spouse. In effect, this doubles the exemption. Over the exempt amount the rate of tax is 35%. Additionally, often gifts that would qualify for the annual exclusion under the gift tax are not subject to the generation-skipping transfer tax. There are additional rules for getting this exemption when the gift is made to a trust. The tax is in addition to the estate tax.

http://www.willsandtrustschicago.com/generationskip.htm
vision-master
 
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 12:12:49

Any news from lawyer today? Can you retroactively file for the homestead exemption? Will that help?
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 12:16:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '.')..this law is designed to take what little the poor have.


The liberals who set up Medicaid set it up so that it is "free" only for the poor, and they define "poor" as having less than $1900 in assets.

Was the house and 20 acre farm in the estate worth less than $1900? Thats hard to believe----How much are they actually appraised at? :|
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Pops » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 13:24:41

Sure it's hard to take care of parents, but is it any harder today than it was 100 years ago?

Hardly.

The reason there is no one at home to take care of kids or old folks is there are just a lot more cool toys to buy nowadays. It takes 2 people working to have houses the size of barns and the credit to fill them with all the crap they can hold. Really, life has never been easier, we make our choices and most choose to consume rather than have a family.

I've been thinking about this on and off since it was posted, I'd like to agree with some nice neat little victimizer package like "evil government" or "evil fat cats" or evil doctors but it isn't that simplistic. Why should kids be allowed to abandon poor old folks to the state then after the funeral go to Vegas with the "inheritance" any more than rich people be allowed to pay no taxes on "carried interest"?

We all know the stats that make the US look like some financial banana republic when it comes to medicine. I believe socialized medicine to be cheaper and provide better care than our ridiculous "system" that provides all the wrong incentives. But even if we had universal medical coverage I don't see how you could justify warehousing old folks at states expense then leaving their estate intact. There would be no incentive at all to try to provide for one's own future need - just another incentive to do exactly the wrong thing.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 13:50:47

So pops, how do you pay for your diabetes treatment? Sounds like you could end up being a medicaid recepiate? Remember, it's what you 'take' (medicaid) after the age of 55 until age 65 when medicare kicks in. Your 'Grandkids' Farm could end up into the State coffers....
vision-master
 

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 13:59:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')ny news from lawyer today? Can you retroactively file for the homestead exemption? Will that help?


Nope - not my business. Only helped with the three day Estate sale. :)
vision-master
 
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Pops » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 16:12:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o pops, how do you pay for your diabetes treatment? Sounds like you could end up being a medicaid recepiate? Remember, it's what you 'take' (medicaid) after the age of 55 until age 65 when medicare kicks in. Your 'Grandkids' Farm could end up into the State coffers....

I won't owe anything to medicaid because missouri doesn't do medicaid for able-bodied adults unless there are children AFAIK.

I pay cash and manage my disease pretty well, my docs don't prescribe every little poke and prod they do for the Cadillac set or for someone without the sense to manage their diet, exercise, blood sugar, etc.

And you know, I don't think money is all it's cracked up to be, especially free money. I've never been motivated by money except when I was really broke, after that not so much. I didn't inherit any money and I've been pretty happy – pretty damn lucky of course to be born when, where and who I was but the fact remains that my leaving a hundred K or two isn't going to change my kids' or grandkids lives. Sure, they'll never be truly rich, but that is more about who your parents are not how much you inherit.

I'm not ragging on anything except the idea that the government is somehow stealing these humble working folks' inheritance. After all, it took care of their folks when they wouldn't. If my offspring aren't willing to wipe the slobber off my chin for a while I'm gonna guess they have better things to do and don't need or want the farm.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby seahorse3 » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 17:24:21

I don't see the problem with recovering money paid from a deceased's estate. If someone has assets to pay for their own care, they shouldn't be drawing state aid and making taxpayers pay for their nursing home care. The common problem is people moving and hiding assets to qualify for Medicaid sonthey can move and elderly relative into state paid nursing care, and hiding those assets to preserve those assets for their own inheritance, taxpayers be damned. So, I'm all for it. We have these aid programs for the poor, not the cheaters and people unwilling to take care of their own kin
seahorse3
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue 01 Mar 2011, 16:14:13

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 18:10:00

seahorse3 .....

No nursing home and no long-term care was used. She died suddenly @ home.

No discloser about MER to client was made!

Of course, being an atty, you wouldn't know how the RICH hide their millions.........

Sorry peps, I don't buy into middle class white boy guilt trips............ :lol:

5 Sneaky Ways the Super Rich Avoid Taxes

Some of the richest people in the country pay the least, relatively speaking, in taxes. How is this possible? Answer: Through the clever manipulation of the U.S. tax code’s loopholes. And it works: as income rises, effective tax rates rise as well, but only up to a point. IRS data shows that the effective income tax rate flattens out at just over 24 percent for those making over a million dollars. As income exceeds $1.5 million, the rate begins to decline; those with incomes above $10 million pay an average income tax rate of around 19 percent. So, how do they do it?

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/money/5-sneaky ... oid-taxes/
vision-master
 

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 18:20:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not ragging on anything except the idea that the government is somehow stealing these humble working folks' inheritance. After all, it took care of their folks when they wouldn't. If my offspring aren't willing to wipe the slobber off my chin for a while I'm gonna guess they have better things to do and don't need or want the farm.


Google' generation skipping trust' good ol buddy pop tart! 8)
vision-master
 
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 27 Aug 2012, 20:16:06

Well if the GOP gets to shred the safety net they way they want to, a lot of today's retirees will outlive their kids. Mom will be 87 and Junior will drop dead at 64 from an untreated heart condition.

Fast forward a couple years and the next generation where Sis will swiftly die because she could not figure out that her "voucher" bought her nothing but a scam insurance policy, and instead of Medicare estate recovery, your friendly neighborhood abusive nursing home will end up owning half the county. Probably by way of something like Mitt Romney's Cayman Islands holding company.
User avatar
PrestonSturges
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6052
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 08:38:57

Medicare.

What is Medicare?

Medicare is a federally funded program which provides health and hospital insurance benefits for persons who are 65 years of age and older, recipients of Social Security disability benefits, and individuals suffering from end stage renal disease. Recipients of Railroad Retirement benefits are also eligible for Medicare. Unlike the Medicaid program, eligibility for Medicare is not dependent upon an individual's income or assets.

How is Medicare Financed?

Medicare Part A is financed primarily by payroll taxes paid by employers and employees. Medicare Part B is financed by general revenues from the federal government and by monthly premiums paid by Medicare beneficiaries.


Sounds like Medicare is another give away program, how about going after the assets of all Medicare recipients too. Why are these beneficiary's treated different than medicaid recipients?
vision-master
 

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 11:35:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')
Sounds like Medicare is another give away program, how about going after the assets of all Medicare recipients too. Why are these beneficiary's treated different than medicaid recipients?


Medicare is an insurance program for the retired. Medicare recipients paid social security and Medicare taxes while they were working in order to qualify for the programs after they retire.

In contrast, Medicaid is part of the US welfare system for the poor. If people who aren't poor utilize the Medicaid system, the government is required by law to obtain restitution from the recipient's estate. The government defines "poor" as someone with less than $1900 in total assets. Apparently your relative's house and 20 acre estate are worth more than $1900, so the government wants the Medicaid money repaid. :|
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 12:06:10

Many low income workers use medicaid.........

Mediciad is NOT just for welfare recipients.

Medicaid is a “counter-cyclical” program. In other words, its enrollment expands to meet rising needs during an economic downturn, when people lose their jobs and their job-based health coverage. That is what happened during the last recession: if Medicaid enrollment had not increased in response to the loss of employer-based coverage, more than 1 million additional adults would have become uninsured.

Retired or disabled people who have low incomes and are enrolled in Medicare may also qualify for help from Medicaid. Even though your income may be too high to qualify for Medicaid insurance coverage, there may be other ways Medicaid can help you.


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2223
vision-master
 

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 13:55:27

Your family member got healthcare through Medicaid and now the government wants to be repaid because she didn't fit the criteria for free healthcare. Is that right?

Thats how the liberals set up the Medicaid program. You only get free healthcare if you have less than $1900 in assets.

You know the old saying:

The rich get bailouts

The poor get handouts

And the middle class gets screwed


Welcome to the middle class, vision master!
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Medicaid Estate Recovery Act..

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 14:44:59

lol
vision-master
 

Previous

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron