[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I') think the reaction pretty soon will be more matriarchal, not as in there being a woman president or something necessarily, but more service-to-others, more cooperation, consideration of others -- a grace.

[vision-master]

We need to return to the understandings of the cycle of life and give up the linear time BS............

Start with understanding The Seven directions.



Top view....... lsol

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o the patriarchal continues until Jesus saves us........

[vision-master]

Waiting for the Sun............ ha, ha....

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o the patriarchal continues until Jesus saves us........

[vision-master]

Mitt = The Beast................. he, he.........

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'H')ow in God's name did you manage to shoe-horn seatbelt laws into that little diatribe?!

[Oneaboveall]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '[')i] “...matriarchal, not as in there being a woman president or something necessarily, but more service-to-others, more cooperation, consideration of others -- a grace...

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'H')ow in God's name did you manage to shoe-horn seatbelt laws into that little diatribe?!

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'H')ow in God's name did you manage to shoe-horn seatbelt laws into that little diatribe?!

[AdTheNad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'L')aws that apply to behavior that effects others (speeding for example) are also reasonable but when we cross a line that includes purely personal choices that's another story.

[Timo]

I just started reading this thread five minutes ago, and i find the original question very interesting, more from a reflective personal level than anything else. I recently wrote a short prose piece about a child slave, born into slavery, with absolutely no idea what freedom is, other than that bad things happen to other slaves who try to get it for themselves. The story is about his first introduction to the underground railroad and his attempts to make any sense of what it actually is. Nothing made any sense to him, about the railroad, freedom, or even any white persons involvement trying to help slaves become free. But, he actually witnesses a white guy secretly cart two fellow slaves off on their own escape, and instinctively, he knows what to do to help them get away.

Anyway (new paragraph) , the concept of freedom to most of us has lost any true meaning because it is now used as a sound bite associated with some other peripheral cause or movement. Very few people in western societies have ever lived without 'true' freedom, and therefore, we have no real appreciation for what it actually is. Our understanding of it is simply what we take for granted as we go about our daily lives. Unfortunately, in order to gain a clear understanding of what "freedom' actually means, i think it's incumbant to lose that freedom before that realization can occur.

So, the much larger issue that's raised by the question of deserving freedom at all requires a definition of what freedom actually means, or at least what you're referring to in raising the question. I'm free to go to the 7-11 and buy a soda, just like somebody else is free to shoot me dead if i'm wearing a hoodie while i walk home past his house. But, i'm pretty sure that the average Joe in China is also free to do the exact same thing (buy a soda). Freedom requires further definition. Freedom of thought? Speech? Activity? To bear arms? To vote? It's a very broad question.

[vision-master]

If'n we are so 'free' why is this stuff illegal in the States?



Terence McKenna: Culture is not your friend

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')f'n we are so 'free' why is this stuff illegal in the States?



Terence McKenna: Culture is not your friend

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I')t's just an example of many, every time we allow government to pass a rule "for our own good" we lose a part of our freedom.

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I')t's just an example of many, every time we allow government to pass a rule "for our own good" we lose a part of our freedom.

[SeaGypsy]

It's pretty obvious that's not what Pops is saying. Deliberate pointless multiplier effect/ it's risky to drive, moreso without a seatbelt or on bald tires. Then that talking about social control in this context, focus on trivial control is assisting the smoke screen around the deadly serious measures being pushed through. Like mounting an argument that speeding laws are un-constitutional whilst ignoring the Patriot Act or Obama's recent extension of Agency rights to disregard/ the Constitution, human/ civil rights, previous legal precedent, jurisprudence etc. etc.

[Pops]

What Gypsy said.

In the context of deserving freedom, would you think frittering away emotion on being forced to wear a helmet while riding a bike is more or less egregious than...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;every day, the NSA intercepts and stores around 1.7 billion emails, phone calls, text and other electronic communications"

National Intelligence Director James Clapper ... “It is not reasonably possible to identify the number of people located in the United States whose communications may have been reviewed under the authority.”

[dinopello]

Pops, you are sounding like it's a conspiracy to get us to not notice the more serious threats to freedom. For the most part, the glorified DJs are just struggling to come up with something that could be considered new material when they are required to fill air time (or blogs). I think a large part of the deterioration of the quality of conversation is just that there is too much of it all the time.

But the thing about the nanny state laws like seatbelt, helmet, drunk driving checks, smoking, plastic bag and lightbulb and certain food "bans", ADA and environmental laws, and the other day some guy at work was complaining about the state code prohibiting grilling on an apartment balcony etc - is that they affect you daily and directly and are there in your face and can be annoying. They are not all equivalent and there are merits more or less to each. Some address issues that are more about protections for the public and some are more about protecting the individual from themself. I'm strongly for some and pretty annoyed by others, but the more of them there are, well they add up. There has to be, and there is a line that moves with public sentiment.

Last Friday my congressman tried (and failed) to (re)ban Polystyrene containers from the House cafeteria. It almost seems like freedom people are more trying to make a point by standing up for our right to eat off styrofoam plates. OK, I convinced myself that agree with you - it's a silly diversion.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')hat Gypsy said.

In the context of deserving freedom, would you think frittering away emotion on being forced to wear a helmet while riding a bike is more or less egregious than...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;every day, the NSA intercepts and stores around 1.7 billion emails, phone calls, text and other electronic communications"

National Intelligence Director James Clapper ... “It is not reasonably possible to identify the number of people located in the United States whose communications may have been reviewed under the authority.”