[Scottie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')his crap is no more possible than Saturian Space Methane.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'W')hile I bet the methane deposits hold a ton of energy, wouldn't mining this stuff and burning it have wicked environmental problems?

I mean, there have been a great deal of concern and discussion about these deposits being disturbed and causing a deadly planetary methane burp....and now we'll mine them? Of course methane is 30 times more potent than carbon dioxide, which is what gets released (along with water) if it's burned, so maybe if it is the big threat we're worried about, maybe burning it will lower the damage potential?

Anyone else have their heads swim from all the potential badness in the world these days? With so many different things to worry us, I'm betting the one that really takes a swing at us is totally missed.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')his crap is no more possible than Saturian Space Methane. (Or cold fusion for that matter). It is a slush/mud mixture on the deepest sea floors that evaporates went brought to atmospheric pressure.

[Lore]

The problem with most of these ideas is that they are just not economically scalable.

[Scottie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')he problem with most of these ideas is that they are just not economically scalable.

[dissident]

They got a steady stream of gas but the fundamental problem of low density remains. Some numbers would have quickly put all of this into context. You need to harvest a layer distributed over thousands of square kilometers. The volume of gas per unit area is not that large. Also, unlike fracked wells or conventional wells you are not going to have the gas flow concentrated into one well head with any commercially viable quantity. So a mobile gas harvester operation is needed which is nothing like existing gas field development but a seafloor mining operation.

Clathrates are formed on the slopes of continental shelves which are unstable locations for seabed disruption. The article quotes people saying that this development is still a long way away. There are show-stopping reasons for this and once again the media does a disservice by not addressing them. No wonder people have the impression that things will work out fine. Technological and resource problems are not presented, just techno-cornucopian expectations of a utopian future.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'T')hey got a steady stream of gas but the fundamental problem of low density remains. Some numbers would have quickly put all of this into context. You need to harvest a layer distributed over thousands of square kilometers. The volume of gas per unit area is not that large. Also, unlike fracked wells or conventional wells you are not going to have the gas flow concentrated into one well head with any commercially viable quantity. So a mobile gas harvester operation is needed which is nothing like existing gas field development but a seafloor mining operation.

Clathrates are formed on the slopes of continental shelves which are unstable locations for seabed disruption. The article quotes people saying that this development is still a long way away. There are show-stopping reasons for this and once again the media does a disservice by not addressing them. No wonder people have the impression that things will work out fine. Technological and resource problems are not presented, just techno-cornucopian expectations of a utopian future.

[Scottie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')I certainly agree that some numbers and costs would have been a big help, if it costs $10/MMU to get the clathrate gas out then it won't compete with other sources for a very long time, if on the other hand it costs $3 then it is competitive now.

[Lore]

I'm waiting for the next hype around oil shale to begin through some desperate techno gamble.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')hink of the worst tight-shale play and then multiply the costs by 100x and the payback by 1/100. It's underwater right?

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Scottie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')his crap is no more possible than Saturian Space Methane.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Scottie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'W')hile I bet the methane deposits hold a ton of energy, wouldn't mining this stuff and burning it have wicked environmental problems?

[dissident]

Abstract PDF

1) The Messoyakha reservoir is a land based reservoir under a deep glacial permafrost layer (420-480 meters). This is not a typical configuration for seabed clathrates except in Arctic shelf regions such as the ESAS. So don't expect well type production.

2) According to the article abstract above it is not clear at all that the "fat tail" decline of this reservoir is due to clathrate production.

There are no seabed clathrate extraction operations that would enable an assessment of commercial viability. If people can find any news on such operations being planned then that would be really useful information.

[vtsnowedin]

As difficult as both deep water and sub permafrost hydrate methane deposits are to access they are still a hell of a lot closer then Saturn or some asteroid. For one thing you don't have to bring it through the reentry process without burning it up. I expect they will keep working on ways to bring usable amounts to the surface and eventually find a way that is viable at the then prevailing price.
Imagine if you will a robot bulldozer pushing square miles of deep water hydrate beds to one central riser pipe where the slush is brought up out of the deep pressure and the methane is separated from the water. Might be able to get it to the surface as already compressed LNG. Working through just 500 meters of permafrost should be a piece of cake in comparison and would obviously become profitable well before any deep water process.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A')s difficult as both deep water and sub permafrost hydrate methane deposits are to access they are still a hell of a lot closer then Saturn or some asteroid. For one thing you don't have to bring it through the reentry process without burning it up. I expect they will keep working on ways to bring usable amounts to the surface and eventually find a way that is viable at the then prevailing price.
Imagine if you will a robot bulldozer pushing square miles of deep water hydrate beds to one central riser pipe where the slush is brought up out of the deep pressure and the methane is separated from the water. Might be able to get it to the surface as already compressed LNG. Working through just 500 meters of permafrost should be a piece of cake in comparison and would obviously become profitable well before any deep water process.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', '
')There are no seabed clathrate extraction operations that would enable an assessment of commercial viability. If people can find any news on such operations being planned then that would be really useful information.