Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
Post a reply

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Rune » Tue 01 May 2012, 23:25:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e're going snake eyes on so many resources we once took for granted, it's hard to keep up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Helium shortage could spell disaster

At the rate that our world is burning through helium, we could run out of the gas within 30 years. While that might bring some sad faces to balloon lovers, it could spell disaster for the medical community and other industries.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/201203 ... ri-120324/


That's another chicken-littleism that will go the way of the Dodo should this LENR thing pan out. We'll have gobs of Helium.
User avatar
Rune
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Rune » Tue 01 May 2012, 23:27:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'R')une, your responses were insulting, derogatory, off-base and plain wrong. You are a loser. So **** you.


You know, some people... I just don't want them to like me. 'Cause I don't respect them.

You are a classic groupthinker.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/30/why-climate-science-is-a-textbook-example-of-groupthink/]The groupthink syndrome[/url]

This consists of three main categories of symptoms:

1. Overestimate of the group’s power and morality, including “an unquestioned belief in the group’s inherent morality, inclining the members to ignore the ethical or moral consequences of their actions.”

2. Closed-mindedness, including a refusal to consider alternative explanations and stereotyped negative views of those who aren’t part of the group’s consensus. The group takes on a “win-lose fighting stance” toward alternative views.[5]

3. Pressure toward uniformity, including “a shared illusion of unanimity concerning judgments conforming to the majority view”; “direct pressure on any member who expresses strong arguments against any of the group’s stereotypes”; and “the emergence of self-appointed mind-guards … who protect the group from adverse information that might shatter their shared complacency about the effectiveness and morality of their decisions.”[6]


I hate groupthink.
Last edited by Tanada on Wed 02 May 2012, 06:10:05, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: removed profanity
User avatar
Rune
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Rune » Wed 02 May 2012, 00:10:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')o once again. **** you and I want you out, troll.


Yeah, because you are a groupthinker and that's the sort of thing that a groupthinker would say.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3'). Pressure toward uniformity, including “a shared illusion of unanimity concerning judgments conforming to the majority view”; “direct pressure on any member who expresses strong arguments against any of the group’s stereotypes”; and “the emergence of self-appointed mind-guards … who protect the group from adverse information that might shatter their shared complacency about the effectiveness and morality of their decisions.”[6]


I think I'll go with the USGS assessment of Phosphorus resources, thank you.
Last edited by Tanada on Wed 02 May 2012, 06:11:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed profanity
User avatar
Rune
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Rune » Wed 02 May 2012, 00:30:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'C')arl, I am sick that you have hijacked this web site to promote your cold-fusion scam. It is disgusting.


I don't care what you think. I have no respect for your thoughts.
User avatar
Rune
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 02 May 2012, 06:15:36

Okay folks lets clear the air. Swearing has been removed and so long as you are disagreeing with each others viewpoints and not attacking each other as people everything runs a lot smoother here.

Groupthink is a real problem but I highly recommend you start a new thread about it instead of discussing it here except as it relates to people refusing to see why the oil industry has buried the idea of peak oil and how Groupthink has been used to make that possible. For the wider ranging discussion on how it effects posters in websites please start a new thread.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Lore » Wed 02 May 2012, 09:05:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rune', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e're going snake eyes on so many resources we once took for granted, it's hard to keep up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Helium shortage could spell disaster

At the rate that our world is burning through helium, we could run out of the gas within 30 years. While that might bring some sad faces to balloon lovers, it could spell disaster for the medical community and other industries.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/201203 ... ri-120324/


That's another chicken-littleism that will go the way of the Dodo should this LENR thing pan out. We'll have gobs of Helium.


A fallacious argument to the future. It's impossible to argue a point based on evidence that has yet to be discovered.

Not likely we will be capturing helium in 20 years through LENR. In fact the amount of helium produced in experiments so far is very close to background levels. Furthermore, it's not even likely we will have developed LENR technology commercially within most of our lifetimes, if ever.

Along with a mired of other essential minerals, gases and fossil fuel liquids that are disappearing fast, we are at best a few decades away from punching big holes in the building blocks to our technology that cannot be replaced by any alternatives. All of this of course is kept under wraps because you can't sell hope and change when faced with no answers.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 03 May 2012, 04:42:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rune', 'S')cience will probably come up with some carbon nanotube filtration system or something. Or genetically engineered algae or other organisms will sequester phosphorus out of waste streams for us. Something like that will happen.

Technology never stands still.

Besides, that 300 - 400 year phosphorus supply is not a static number, the report said. That's just what we know about at present.

You can also get it out of deep seawater - if you have a whole lot of cheap, cheap energy. But it will probably never have to come to that.

At any rate, I'm not losing any sleep over it.


The key phrase is "will probably." But given an ave. ecological footprint that's already higher than bio-capacity, the threat of peak oil (and even oil is needed to manufacture goods needed for other sources of energy), the effects of ecological damage and even climate change (which may affect resource availability and production), increasing population, and increasing demand per capita, then whatever technofixes we argue "will probably" take place should have taken place some time ago.

That is why the argument that the "idea of 'peak oil'" has been "buried" is far removed from the truth.
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Scottie » Thu 03 May 2012, 07:07:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')That is why the argument that the "idea of 'peak oil'" has been "buried" is far removed from the truth.



Reading through this thread, there is a post on about page 6 in which the author walks through easily available documentation showing peak oil studies and claims and news articles progressing through more than half a century, all available on the web, all easy to find.

I agree with you that the idea of peak oil being "buried" just doesn't work out at all, considering for how long, and how easy that information is to get, and the sheer number of people it has been put in front of.
User avatar
Scottie
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed 02 May 2012, 19:04:19
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Rune » Thu 03 May 2012, 15:33:14

Vaclav Smil: Placing The American Gas Boom In Perspective

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere is my advice. Do not get carried away either by bonanza claims (implying only sinking natural gas prices and seeing Marcellus as the Saudi Arabia of natural gas) or by the negativism of anti-fracking activists (recently joined by Hollywood celebrities). Low prices will slow the development of shale gas. Reserve estimates of any mineral resource are always uncertain during an early stage of development (in 2011, the U.S. Geological Survey boosted its estimate of technically recoverable Marcellus gas more than 40-fold compared to its 2002 value), and even conservative assessments point to a combination of already available reserves and the most likely additional resources that would suffice (at the current rate of consumption) to supply America for at least the next 50 years.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')een from this perspective, American shale gas production must be viewed as only one, albeit a major, component of gas’s global rise. In 1970, natural gas supplied 18 percent of global commercial energy and that share rose to about 24 percent by 2010 (with the EU share going from less than 8 percent to 26 percent), while the worldwide crude oil share fell from 46 percent to 34 percent (and in the EU from 50 percent to 38 percent). Natural gas’s rise has been slowed recently by China’s extraordinarily high coal extraction rates, but these cannot be repeated in the future (the country is already a large importer of coal). Natural gas will thus continue its conquest of global and national energy supplies, with five factors behind the rise—discoveries of new large fields, diffusion of shale gas production, expansion of LNG exports, high prices of crude oil, and unrivaled efficiency of gas converters.
User avatar
Rune
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby meemoe_uk » Thu 03 May 2012, 20:06:04

>Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

It hasn't really. The PO-is_Now myth is kept going at a low level cult status. Scarcity of a commodity makes it expensive, so the industry calls on the peakoil wing to hype up prices now and again.

PO is not in the mass media as much as when Simmons was hyping it like back in 2004-2008. But since then the flow of cash to the oil industry development is built and stable now.
User avatar
meemoe_uk
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue 22 May 2007, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby kublikhan » Thu 03 May 2012, 20:45:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('meemoe_uk', 'S')carcity of a commodity makes it expensive, so the industry calls on the peakoil wing to hype up prices now and again.
It's true, I control world oil prices. When my fellow powers-that-be need oil prices to rise, they call me. Then I call my fellow peakers and we make it happen. Most have no idea how much power we peakers wield. Meemoe is one of the few. Fortunately, he is regarded as a loon by the sheeple so we can continue with our manipulations.

Kub after manipulating oil prices
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby seenmostofit » Thu 03 May 2012, 22:05:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 't')o summarize; shale gas is a broken dream.


You mean, because the companies did such a wonderful job extracting it they cratered the price in America, bringing about their own demise? Certainly more than a few companies are going to pay the price for the success of shale gas production by going out of business when everything is said and done.
seenmostofit
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2012, 12:19:50
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby seenmostofit » Thu 03 May 2012, 22:08:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('meemoe_uk', '
')PO is not in the mass media as much as when Simmons was hyping it like back in 2004-2008. But since then the flow of cash to the oil industry development is built and stable now.


Was Simmons really hyping peak oil? A belief system by definition requires..belief. I think Simmons really believed what he was saying, probably even right there at the end when he completely wigged out. Certainly he is another reason why it is difficult to claim that peak oil has been "buried".
seenmostofit
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2012, 12:19:50
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby Lore » Thu 03 May 2012, 22:49:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 't')o summarize; shale gas is a broken dream.


You mean, because the companies did such a wonderful job extracting it they cratered the price in America, bringing about their own demise? Certainly more than a few companies are going to pay the price for the success of shale gas production by going out of business when everything is said and done.


It's more like a slow breaking bubble. Like the rush to invest in Internet pet food companies with sock puppets as their spokes person. The customers are just not there. It doesn't make sence to produce a glut of expensive product just because you can, yet some unfortunate companies did it anyway rather then risk missing the perceived gold rush. It also doesn't answer the question as to the long term viability of shale gas.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 07 May 2012, 18:45:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rune', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')o once again. **** you and I want you out, troll.


Yeah, because you are a groupthinker and that's the sort of thing that a groupthinker would say.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3'). Pressure toward uniformity, including “a shared illusion of unanimity concerning judgments conforming to the majority view”; “direct pressure on any member who expresses strong arguments against any of the group’s stereotypes”; and “the emergence of self-appointed mind-guards … who protect the group from adverse information that might shatter their shared complacency about the effectiveness and morality of their decisions.”[6]


I think I'll go with the USGS assessment of Phosphorus resources, thank you.

Is that assessment as accurate as their assessment of American oil in the 1950's?
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
User avatar
rangerone314
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed 03 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Location: Maryland
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 08 May 2012, 03:01:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 't')o summarize; shale gas is a broken dream.


You mean, because the companies did such a wonderful job extracting it they cratered the price in America, bringing about their own demise? Certainly more than a few companies are going to pay the price for the success of shale gas production by going out of business when everything is said and done.


More like increasing debt leading to a credit crunch, followed by demand deflation. Any "wonderful job" and "success" will involve more than a 6-mb/d increase in production for the next two decades, as energy demand has to go up by that amount in around three years to maintain global economic growth.
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 08 May 2012, 03:03:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '
')
Was Simmons really hyping peak oil? A belief system by definition requires..belief. I think Simmons really believed what he was saying, probably even right there at the end when he completely wigged out. Certainly he is another reason why it is difficult to claim that peak oil has been "buried".


One should look at the latest BP annual concerning oil production vs. demand posted earlier. That confirms peak oil, not to mention the reliance on non-conventional sources.
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland
Top

Re: Why the oil industry has buried the idea of "peak oil"

Unread postby seenmostofit » Tue 08 May 2012, 05:41:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '
')
Was Simmons really hyping peak oil? A belief system by definition requires..belief. I think Simmons really believed what he was saying, probably even right there at the end when he completely wigged out. Certainly he is another reason why it is difficult to claim that peak oil has been "buried".


One should look at the latest BP annual concerning oil production vs. demand posted earlier. That confirms peak oil, not to mention the reliance on non-conventional sources.


According to a post and information provided elsewhere in this website, C&C production has reached an all time high. Again. It sounds as though BP might be a tad behind the times.
seenmostofit
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2012, 12:19:50
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests



cron